How Dual-Career Couples Can Balance Work, Family & Marriage w/ Dr. Irfan Firdaus

[SPEAKER_00]: Doctors get each other. [SPEAKER_00]: I have so many friends who married non-positions and it didn't work out, married to a physician, you get each other, you know the routine. [SPEAKER_01]: What did you think being married to another doctor would be like? [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it would be amazing to turn that to be even better than I thought. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you watch me take these scary swings? [SPEAKER_01]: What does support look like when money was so tight, but the vision was so clear? [SPEAKER_00]: It was difficult. [SPEAKER_00]: I admit you wanted to change the world and thought that was amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: So whatever it took, and it turned out amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't think our

lives would cross that much as an oncologist and an anginicologist. [SPEAKER_00]: when someone has beaten their cancer. [SPEAKER_00]: We pat each other on the bat. [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, the treatment reached so much having their sex life is destroyed. [SPEAKER_00]: I learned about the benefits of estrogen, about menopause, and how it factors into oncology. [SPEAKER_00]: Help me counsel my patients even better. [SPEAKER_01]: What's one belief about marriage in medicine that you think people should retire? [SPEAKER_00]: What I've learned over the years is that, [SPEAKER_01]: Alright guys, today two doctors, one marriage, three calendars, and a mission that doesn't clock out ever. [SPEAKER_01]: Today we're talking about what partnership looks like when both people take care of other

people for a living. [SPEAKER_01]: Today, I get to introduce someone I know in two ways. [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Irfan Ferdos is a medical oncologist with the Christ Hospital Physicians here in Cincinnati. [SPEAKER_01]: Where we call home, thanks to him. [SPEAKER_01]: He treats a full range of cancers with a special focus on GI cancers. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's been a principal investigator on GI Cancer Clinical Trials, presenting his work at major meetings. [SPEAKER_01]: He also cares for gynecologic and genital urinary cancers, including ovarian and prostate. [SPEAKER_01]: He trained at Des Moines University, completed residency at Lutheran General, and a medical oncology fellowship at the University of Cincinnati, and he spent decades serving patients across our region. [SPEAKER_01]: He's

a clinician, a teacher, an unbelievable father, and he happens to be my head. [SPEAKER_01]: my hubs. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, and I'll tell you right now, and I hope this makes the edit. [SPEAKER_01]: He is a behind the scenes type of guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but so this is going to be really interesting and a true labor of love. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so let's get into the beginning. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: So when we first started dating, what did you think being married to another doctor would be like? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I thought it would be amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: We're both so driven, career oriented, it turned out to be even better than I thought. [SPEAKER_00]: It was going to

be hard for sure with our hours and everything, but I think we understand each other. [SPEAKER_00]: Doctors get each other, so they know that lifestyle, they know the routine, [SPEAKER_00]: they understand what the hours are like. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's good. [SPEAKER_00]: I have so many friends who married non-positions and it didn't work out. [SPEAKER_00]: I think married to a physician, you get each other, you know the, you know the routine. [SPEAKER_01]: So I remember a story, you guys all know I'm a firm believer in coaching and therapy, and we've been married 30 years this year. [SPEAKER_01]: So of course, you know, there's been help along the way, because there's ups and downs, and

I remember complaining one time because I was like, how do I... [SPEAKER_01]: complain if he's late or he missed his something, which is rare because he's dealing with stage four cancer and how do you ever compete with that and that there has gave me the best line ever. [SPEAKER_01]: She was like you're never going to win that argument. [SPEAKER_01]: And as he's not out golfing or doing something for himself, she's like, you are allowed to ask him to be present as your husband and not always as the oncologist. [SPEAKER_01]: But he's right, it's that level of understanding. [SPEAKER_01]: I had surgery recently and he worked and I was okay with it when he came up

and down to see me, but I didn't want patients to have to cancel their cancer treatments while I was having a minor procedure. [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, while I was in labor with at least one of the three, he was also rounding at it. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought I'm multitasking because I was there anyway, but I didn't miss anything. [SPEAKER_00]: And I still was able to take care of some people on the way. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you were, but our third child, our third child. [SPEAKER_01]: I showed up eight centimeters and he was dressed in his white coat and ready to go downstairs and the nurses were like, what are you doing? [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like,

oh, I'm gonna go make quick rounds. [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, this is baby number three and she's eight centimeters. [SPEAKER_01]: She was born like 20 minutes after we got off. [SPEAKER_00]: In the lives of a fence, they were multiple fossil lives. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so that was the third labor for third child, uh, gluing two false alarms. [SPEAKER_00]: So I was just being prepared. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I guess, apparently, this is why I retired from a statrax. [SPEAKER_01]: I did it for a decade. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really good at diagnosing other people's labor, but, uh, apparently my own, um, [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't so sharp at that one. [SPEAKER_01]: Name a moment early on where we knew, or where

you knew that we could carry the weight of these big careers that we had signed up for, but still be us. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's multiple moments, you know, just having children. [SPEAKER_00]: I think when we, we didn't have kids for the first five years, we were in training, it was difficult. [SPEAKER_00]: We never saw each other. [SPEAKER_00]: We lived apart, I thought. [SPEAKER_00]: making it through that. [SPEAKER_00]: And then finally, you know, living together, creating our family, getting through those early years, I knew right away that we were going to be fine. [SPEAKER_00]: Because we were in the trenches, both training, and then starting our family, you know, that moment I was like, okay,

we made it through training, and we're going to have kids [SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, it was even in the darkest of times when we had no money, and we could barely afford our bills. [SPEAKER_01]: We laughed almost every single day. [SPEAKER_01]: There's one of the worst pranks I ever played on him. [SPEAKER_01]: I had been on call and Irfan did actually more diaper changing than I did because being on calls and I would you why I didn't usually spend the night in the hospital. [SPEAKER_01]: He was on call, he rarely gets called in, but he's there all day. [SPEAKER_01]: So he had a habit of not putting our son on the changing table and

clipping him in. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, gentle reminders wouldn't work. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, finally, I decided that I was going to teach him a lesson. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, I snuck into the nursery. [SPEAKER_01]: I picked up our son off of the changing table and gently placed him on the floor. [SPEAKER_01]: And her fondness, like the kindest human being in the world. [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't have a mean bone and his body. [SPEAKER_01]: And he walks, and then I hid in the closet. [SPEAKER_01]: He walks in and he's like, oh my God, poor baby. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I didn't let him suffer any longer. [SPEAKER_01]: I popped out and I was like, I told you. [SPEAKER_01]: And he

was like, oh my God, I cannot believe that you did that. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's those early moments of laughter, bonding over the lack of sleep. [SPEAKER_01]: and just being true partners and helping each other through and not judging each other, I think was when I knew that we were going to make it. [SPEAKER_01]: And just I think [SPEAKER_01]: gratitude. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: We were always grateful whether we were eating craft macaroni cheese and stuffed tough stuffing or just had a really cool bike ride and we weren't working. [SPEAKER_01]: I think because he sees people at their sickest when they're stripped of everything material you really, really appreciate life and I think that's when

we knew that we were going to be able [SPEAKER_01]: and the kids. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I agree with that. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was a mean joke. [SPEAKER_01]: That it was a mean joke. [SPEAKER_01]: So now we know who the nice one is in the relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: So what is a good day? [SPEAKER_01]: Look like us for at home and signs that our symptoms are our systems are working. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think, you know, we have family meetings. [SPEAKER_00]: We communicate, I think that's important with our hours and all your meetings, your travel, my uncalled schedule, are weekly meeting to kind of know what the week's gonna be like is good. [SPEAKER_00]: Our kids

completely understand the dual talk, doctor, parent relationship, they get it. [SPEAKER_00]: They know we're not around as much. [SPEAKER_00]: They, and they have learned over time to, to figure things out and be more resourceful at home. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think we had it figured out really well early and we had a good system. [SPEAKER_00]: We watched each other's backs when one was out, the other one picked up and vice versa. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's, it was good. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we figured it out. [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of things went wrong, but we figured it out on the fly. [SPEAKER_01]: I think you learn, I always say this. [SPEAKER_01]: You learn a lot more from your

mistakes than your success and your success. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think our non-negotiables from the beginning was date nights. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: because it made us better parents and doctors and made us just feel human. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: I think our other non-negotiables were dinner at least four or five times a week together as a family. [SPEAKER_01]: And that was no TV unless there's a sporting event on God forbid, but no TV, no phones, like nothing, and really, [SPEAKER_01]: we learned that even if we didn't have all the hours and we weren't the parents that were at the field trips that the time we spent with the children was going to be very engaged. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes,

we knew what was going on with them. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the third thing was, I think, what has bonded us incredibly, incredibly, as family vacations. [SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't have to be fancy, you know, but just traveling together, having new experiences, it not only bound it us as parents, but the unit of five and the kids still talk about it and our walls are covered with world travels and we really decided to use the globe. [SPEAKER_01]: um, as a teacher for our children. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I'll say the other system that works for us a family meeting sounds so boring. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So we decided to make it fun with either a really good

meal or a really good bottle of wine, um, and just sit and plan out our week and be like, okay, I'm going to be gone. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going here. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing this, um, and trying to understand what [SPEAKER_01]: each of us is doing. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the other thing that we also said was, um, no, uh, shop-talk at the dinner table. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the kids didn't want to hear about, um, our patients or our difficult surgeries or anything like that. [SPEAKER_01]: What is the superpower of a physician-visitian household? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think. [SPEAKER_00]: There's many, obviously you have to be engaged. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to be able to leave work at work. [SPEAKER_00]:

And when you come home, you have to be the spouse and the parent in its heart. [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes a subject matter at work can be heavy for both of us. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a surgery that wasn't as good as you expected, and I'll come that wasn't as good as you expected. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's been challenging. [SPEAKER_00]: I think to leave work at work and come home and be the family man, be the husband. [SPEAKER_00]: And that took a lot of time to figure that out for me at least. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the super power is just having that ability to draw the line and when you walk in Be present Be be where your

feet are so to speak So I love that saying say that again [SPEAKER_00]: be where your feet are, you know, it's a great book written by the 76 or CEO, and it's just about being present and about being where you are. [SPEAKER_00]: And if when you're at work you're at work, you know, you should be focused on that. [SPEAKER_00]: But when you leave work, [SPEAKER_00]: you should be present and do your best job to be there for your family and unwind. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this face that we both have to unwind when we get home, you know, sometimes work does follow you home, you're charting, you're thinking about patients, you're thinking about what you should

have done differently or what you could have done differently, but I think having that ability to draw the line and just be present is what you have to be. [SPEAKER_01]: So since you've got the success is coming home and feeling really good about what you've done, right? [SPEAKER_01]: The trap is not being able to let go of work and that's been a trap for me to whether it was as a doctor, as a surgeon, as an obstetrician, or as an entrepreneur, but I would joke about the other thing where we are so different. [SPEAKER_01]: So anytime I was learning about any disease process, [SPEAKER_01]: whether it was dermatology, orthopedics, neurology, I was convinced I got

it, or one of the kids has it. [SPEAKER_01]: Irfan will, a kid will have to have a digit hanging off before he thinks it's anything because he's so used to dealing with [SPEAKER_01]: the biggest of the sick and so the kids joke that they literally have to have something dangling off of them before their father will take it seriously. [SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, mom will turn any small problem into a tumor and so we also have to balance that because if it were [SPEAKER_01]: So being with a dreamer, we talk about this a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: So to me dreaming is a form of planning, and I learned early on that as a child that I was a

dreamer, but as a doctor for a very long time, I followed a very traditional route. [SPEAKER_01]: I watched my mother get sick. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, I'm good at science and math. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to be a doctor. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to fix the women's health care system. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I decided I was going to open my own practice because you told me I'd drive you crazy if I stayed home. [SPEAKER_01]: And then found women coming from 35 states in three countries and decided to found this company. [SPEAKER_01]: But you're the one that was steady and, you know, I sell this quote that your partner either fuels you or messes you up. [SPEAKER_01]:

And so he was my original investor, but he's also been the roots to my wings. [SPEAKER_01]: And so what do you always joke that are the scariest words in the English language? [SPEAKER_00]: I have an idea. [SPEAKER_01]: And what do you usually say? [SPEAKER_01]: What is this going to cost me? [SPEAKER_01]: And what else? [SPEAKER_01]: Where are we going? [SPEAKER_01]: But you watched me take these super scary swings, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Building clinics, raising capital, pivoting my business model. [SPEAKER_01]: What does support look like when the money was so tight, but the vision was so clear? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was difficult, I met, you know, doctors, I think are kind of pigeonholed into these traditional

roles, you go to med school, you go out to take care of people, and many, many fall into that traditional role, but some don't. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think you paid your dues, you caught babies, you took care of women for [SPEAKER_00]: decades. [SPEAKER_00]: But you figured out that that wasn't for you. [SPEAKER_00]: You wanted to be an advocate. [SPEAKER_00]: You wanted education. [SPEAKER_00]: You wanted to change the world and create a bigger thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And I saw that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, that's amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not something I could do. [SPEAKER_00]: I was born to be in the trenches, taking care of people and making my difference there. [SPEAKER_00]: But you did that

and you wanted to do more and I saw that and I thought that was amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: So whatever it took from our household to do that is what I wanted to do for you. [SPEAKER_00]: And we were blessed because we had the ability to do that and pivot on a fly, clean out some of our 401k, which wasn't advisable, but we did it anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because if you're going to bet on someone, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you take a risk, so we took the risk and I wouldn't have changed the thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: But again, we had the ability to do it. [SPEAKER_00]: So we took that swing and

it turned out amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't change the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: When I first decided, though, to leave my study job and open her MD, what was your thought and then how did you feel a couple months later? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll be honest. [SPEAKER_00]: I missed that paycheck. [SPEAKER_00]: Since I'm the one who does the finances and it was nice having a steady paycheck every every two weeks when that disappeared It's like okay, well, we'll figure it out. [SPEAKER_01]: And when you're a founder you actually people don't realize you actually paid to go to work. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah first. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's no income coming in, but we got to think about big pictures,

you know, the greater good, as I like to say, it's all about the change you want it to make. [SPEAKER_00]: And also about happiness and fulfillment, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you don't become a doctor. [SPEAKER_00]: just to not be happy and be in the trenches all the time and I knew that you didn't want to do that. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was something that I wasn't really worried about. [SPEAKER_00]: It was stressful I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: I would be lying to if it wasn't stressful but I think it did it was something that I wanted you to do and it was amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: It was stressful for me because when your partner believes in you so

much, there's that added pressure. [SPEAKER_01]: But I was still seeing patients. [SPEAKER_01]: I just wasn't delivering babies anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I've completely pivoted out of patient care and very excited about what I'm doing, working on a book and during the podcast and educating and advocating. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like life has given me all these opportunities, but you've given me the ability to [SPEAKER_01]: take chances and take time to build that because it doesn't happen overnight. [SPEAKER_01]: And so on call late cases, kids logistics, I'm traveling. [SPEAKER_01]: My son had surgery while I was out of town because he hurt his knee, but we're managing all this. [SPEAKER_01]: So what's our rule when our calendar is

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think we're also blessed. [SPEAKER_00]: We have help and our kids are older and they can manage a lot of things on their own. [SPEAKER_00]: We taught them well, I think, and it's good. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we have... [SPEAKER_00]: be framework to know. [SPEAKER_00]: We have that weekly meeting. [SPEAKER_00]: We have figured out who's going to cover what. [SPEAKER_00]: I try to make every single event that I can. [SPEAKER_00]: I move my schedule around as best as we can. [SPEAKER_00]: We use time off wisely. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a day-to-day thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's any perfect answer here. [SPEAKER_00]: When something goes wrong, moving patients around to be somewhere or

your flight is delayed, figuring out what we're going to do, I think it's important. [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't have family around to cover a lot of our things in Cincinnati. [SPEAKER_00]: They're closed, but they're not close enough to cover something on the fly. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's just a work in progress. [SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, it's about perspective as well. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm definitely the one that gets worked up more quickly, but you have surgeons, mindset, and an oncologist mindset. [SPEAKER_01]: And we're so used to dealing with things that are very, very serious. [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of times he'll put things in perspective for me and say, hey, anyone I've met today or

talked with would in a heartbeat trade our problems or our issues that we're dealing with for theirs. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think it's perspective. [SPEAKER_01]: It's really learning early on what's important and what's worth your energy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think for us the thing that he protects [SPEAKER_01]: for us and for our children is time. [SPEAKER_01]: We do not give up vacation time, time off events that are very important to the children. [SPEAKER_01]: Those are non-negotiables. [SPEAKER_01]: I will schedule my trips around that. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm my speaking engagements. [SPEAKER_01]: We have always made sure. [SPEAKER_01]: We had an equestrian. [SPEAKER_01]: We had a soccer player. [SPEAKER_01]: We had an actress, and now she

is a runner. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, AirFawn has been known to sneak into the coaches area because he was a runner, um, that's how involved he gets a very hands on parenting. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I think it's time. [SPEAKER_01]: That was our not negotiable. [SPEAKER_01]: We had some. [SPEAKER_01]: really interesting interactions. [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't think our lives would cross that much as an oncologist and as a gynecologist but we both actually have taught each other a lot not only personally but professionally. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I want to talk about two specific instances. [SPEAKER_01]: So I did some work with the White Dress Project for advocacy for fibroids that disproportionately affect minority women. [SPEAKER_01]: And you, because you

get to, he travels with me sometimes and he gets to see my other work because it's so different from what he does. [SPEAKER_01]: and he got to listen to some prolific stories of women sharing the negative impact on fibroids and fibroids are usually benign tumors that can cause bleeding, infertility, pain and not a lot of advancements have been made up until very recently in fibroids. [SPEAKER_01]: But you used to think [SPEAKER_01]: So when you saw a mass and it was a fibroid, you were like, oh, this is good news. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But then you said to me at this conference, I'll never forget you're like, I'll never tell a woman again. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's

just a fibroid. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to share what like, what happened? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think [SPEAKER_00]: You know, fibroids, yes, it's benign, that's great, it's not cancer, but a lot of these fibroids can bleed very badly. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how they wind up in my office is because, you know, years of bleeding heavily, they become very anemic, they become iron deficient. [SPEAKER_00]: And we do a lot of iron infusions in our office. [SPEAKER_00]: uh... which can help them feel better very very quickly uh... and it is gratifying uh... to do that and someone who comes in eating a ton of ice weak tired can't be present for their own family you give them a

couple of doses of iron and then literally in a week or [SPEAKER_00]: or they're feeling significantly better and they're able to get on with their life again. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's kind of the first time that we had a crossover is like semi-appation that was profoundly anemic. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think getting or taking care of that vibroid is also obviously critically important. [SPEAKER_00]: So they don't have to keep coming back for more treatment in our office. [SPEAKER_01]: And you've heard that story of a woman who became suicidal because she had infertility and her husband ended up leaving her and so she felt like she had lost the opportunity to become a mother but then she also

lost her relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you see the implications of a non-cancerist, [SPEAKER_01]: tumor. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it really changes your perspective. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you weren't being dismissive when you were like, oh, they got it's a fibroid. [SPEAKER_01]: You were like, almost like, they got it's not uterine cancer. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: The other day, um, I, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: was talking about how 9 out of every 10 female cancer patients struggle with some type of sexual dysfunction, but only 1 in 10 have it addressed despite ASCO guidelines and asked us to answer for the American Society. [SPEAKER_01]: And they tell them, but they're so busy talking about the data and the treatment and

what's going to happen having family meetings, but our fond got really good about addressing sexual health concerns and helping patients anticipate. [SPEAKER_01]: And so they were kind of shocked, right, that you would do that. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think, you know, the learning I did at home by absorbing things from you, going to some of your talks, meaning some of the people that you rub elbows with, it was definitely eye-opening for me because, you know, historically when someone has [SPEAKER_00]: beaten their cancer, survivorship. [SPEAKER_00]: We pat each other on the back. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, all right, great job. [SPEAKER_00]: Go on to live your life. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe it's amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, the

treatment that we did to get there reached so much havoc, their sex life is destroyed. [SPEAKER_00]: Their menstrual cycle is destroyed. [SPEAKER_00]: They don't feel well. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the cancer is gone. [SPEAKER_00]: but their lives are permanently or in their eyes permanently destroyed. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's where survivorship is so important. [SPEAKER_00]: And what I learned a lot is about the benefits of estrogen, which in oncology, if you're not aware, is kind of a taboo term because for years and years we thought, well, estrogen is one of the causes for breast cancer. [SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely been implicated in breast cancer if you have the right genetics or family history. [SPEAKER_00]: That's definitely true, but

I think estrogen still has a role after beating breast cancer in many, many women, not all, but many. [SPEAKER_00]: where it can be life-changing. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I learned, but it's historically many oncologists to this day even think, well, you'd be breast cancer seven years ago, estrogen should never be on your radar, but meanwhile estrogen is what you may need to feel better. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been a high opening for me and many other oncologists as well, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: And the WHA and a lot of the data, they did not share that in the estrogen only arm, the women who developed breast cancers actually had much lower mortality, and they had a decreased

risk of developing those breast cancers. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, and localized estrogen therapy, [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of doctors, including myself, believe almost every single patient is a candidate for that to prevent urinary tract infection, sexual pain, and vaginal and dryness. [SPEAKER_01]: And so really, I think oncology is coming around and we are understanding the data better. [SPEAKER_01]: And there's more and more data to actually support hormone therapy for cancer patients. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, each individual has cancer. [SPEAKER_01]: tumor type and estrogen, whether it's estrogen receptor positive, it's a discussion to have, but it's no longer an absolute no, like the both of us were, were taught, but I think the other funny story that you have is

you were talking to a patient the other day and we never got to actually finish it because currently in this country there's one change men and post provider for every 32,000 patients because as women are [SPEAKER_01]: And this is something that we weren't trained up in residency. [SPEAKER_01]: And all of my training came later. [SPEAKER_01]: I joke on my own time and time. [SPEAKER_01]: But what did she say to you? [SPEAKER_01]: You were talking to her about the effect she was gonna have for her treatment. [SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, how do you know so much about menopause? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I was talking to a patient about some of her effects that we would

be creating from her treatment. [SPEAKER_00]: And I went through this kind of whole spiel that I learned through Somi and I created a Minopause spiel for the oncologist's perspective, and she was kind of surprised because she'd actually seen a different oncologist, and I was a second opinion, and she had never [SPEAKER_00]: So, it was great. [SPEAKER_00]: I've learned so much about menopause and how it factors into oncology and using that data that I've learned from Sony. [SPEAKER_00]: This is what we've taught each other. [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually helped me counsel my patients even better. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been eye-opening for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so we've talked about kids, we've talked about home, we've talked about how

we've helped each other with our careers. [SPEAKER_01]: It also helps sometimes for me like quickly, hey, I need it on consult, you know, and those can take weeks and I get advice from him. [SPEAKER_01]: But what's one thing that most listeners would never guess about me, either from home, from clinic or travel? [SPEAKER_00]: I think one thing that people would not know about Somi is, you know, on stage, she's well put together, always looks at the part, but at home, she is, we like to call her the tsunami. [SPEAKER_00]: The Somi tsunami. [SPEAKER_00]: She is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is,

is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say a bit messy and disorganized, amazing mother, amazing cook, cook's amazing meals for us, but the kitchen after she's done is like a war zone. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a neat freak. [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess it works out well, and that's in that scenario where I come in and clean up everything But sometimes I'm

shocked when I see you on stage. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh my god, look at your bed the closet is it destroyed But you look like that on stage is pretty amazing [SPEAKER_01]: And I can plan a trip like I execute business plans like I get it done, but there is a aftermath like a zone of just chaos and I don't think people would ever guess that that creativity and that all of that [SPEAKER_01]: And the business, everything, like I started my business in a notebook, like he let, oh, my list. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a list for everything. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a list about, there's, there might be a line item on a

list find list from last week. [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy the amount of list she has. [SPEAKER_00]: But it does work. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess if we [SPEAKER_00]: So I do get that. [SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, if it's manifestation, if I write it down, it's going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: Everything that I have ever written down, including starting my business, landing certain podcasts, landing certain deals, like if I've written it down, it's happened. [SPEAKER_01]: So for me, it's manifesting. [SPEAKER_01]: It also keeps me organized. [SPEAKER_01]: And in the week ritual, what is something that we do to say we survived, a meal order to cook, like what is our end of the week? [SPEAKER_00]: I think

when we survived the week, we're both off on a week and a date night is critical. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we do go on a lot of date nights and I think for me, that's a nice way to finish the week. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't see each other a lot during the week, sometimes some people joke that that's the secret dude. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is secret. [SPEAKER_00]: There's truth to that, I think, to some extent. [SPEAKER_01]: We miss each other. [SPEAKER_00]: Distance makes the heart grow fond of, I think. [SPEAKER_00]: But no, I think date night at the end of the week is amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: We go out for a nice meal. [SPEAKER_00]:

We have a bottle of wine or a glass of wine. [SPEAKER_00]: And we can just kind of wrap up the week and just talk and see, hey, what's going on? [SPEAKER_00]: Look, what have you been? [SPEAKER_00]: you know, just to do the basics of marriage, sometimes which, you know, get thrown by the wayside when you're so busy. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's what I look forward to at the end of the week is our date night. [SPEAKER_00]: And then travel, we love to travel as you've heard, we've been to many places to get a travel is something, the love of travel something we both share. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think talking about our next adventure, figuring

things out, you know, have the fun of travel is actually organizing the traveler setting it up. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been, it's been great. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, traveling, you learn new things together, you experience new cultures together. [SPEAKER_01]: We're both foodies. [SPEAKER_01]: We love, love, love food. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's what's really really important to us. [SPEAKER_01]: So what's one belief about marriage in medicine that you think people should retire and replace it with? [SPEAKER_00]: the traditional marriage about nine to five life and 2.3 kids, a dog, I think there's something to that. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't just have all work and no play. [SPEAKER_00]: I think you work hard to be successful and

create a family. [SPEAKER_00]: and you know, get the financial freedom that you want. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think you have to take time to smell the roses. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we often get so caught up, we're both super-driven in our jobs and our work life. [SPEAKER_00]: Is it creating that balance is important? [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like that's probably what I've learned over the years is that, [SPEAKER_00]: work is work and home is home and in home is the safe place where you should be able to talk to your spouse or your family about anything and we are super close and tight as a family but I think that's something we created together. [SPEAKER_00]: I think

that's so important. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's where many doctors and professionals get so wrapped up in their work that they forget about the [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and speaking of his picket fence 2.3 kids, because we do have three children, 24, 19, and almost 17. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we do have two dogs, because as an OBGYN, I found that I like to bring living things into the home. [SPEAKER_01]: We had a diaper dog at one point, but our latest edition, [SPEAKER_01]: was kind of thrust upon her fond. [SPEAKER_01]: We had gone to a puppies in yoga class and they had friend cheese and unfortunately we had lost our friendship last year and had to put her

down and the week before at a farmer's market I had seen a friend cheese and I was like I think it's time for another one and then I got him in a week moment on a Sunday. [SPEAKER_01]: And by Tuesday, a new gusto, guess, was being delivered to us. [SPEAKER_01]: So our fun has learned that if he gives me a little bit of room, like, [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you're the only woman in the world I know who 48 hours later found a dog and it is now being delivered to our house. [SPEAKER_01]: But what happens? [SPEAKER_01]: He fights at the worst and then who does the dog usually love the dog? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean,

I'm a dog person, so it was something that we didn't need at the time, but I think it turned out to be in a great addition to the family and he's an amazing dog. [SPEAKER_01]: So my God, it's the best. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we were talking about this last night and dinner, describe the partnership that we want for our kids. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think our kids, you know, um, they grew up in a two-position parent household. [SPEAKER_00]: I think they saw how we made it work through tough times. [SPEAKER_00]: They they saw that we weren't always present because of our job. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and they got exchanged and garages at the hospital when one of us

is off. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, car seat handoffs in a, you know, in a hospital garage. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many old pairs of baby setters we've had. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's full of pairs and, and people who've helped out over the years because our parents weren't, you know, close by. [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, I think what they have learned is, [SPEAKER_00]: we figured out how to make this family work and now hopefully they can use that knowledge to to make their family, their future families work and I think seeing a two physician household in the crazy schedules, I don't think it gets any more difficult than that and hopefully they can [SPEAKER_00]: take that knowledge

and use or that experience and use that to kind of create their own family unit and make sure that they figure out, use the tools that they have to to make their families run like we made ours run. [SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, it was two things. [SPEAKER_01]: It was, we both treat each other in a manner that I want them to be treated in their relationships. [SPEAKER_01]: I firmly believe, or if I'm watching people die young or too early and telling people, [SPEAKER_01]: Now, while you're alive, like how you feel about them, whether you upset with them, whether you love them, whether you're happy, so being very expressive, I believe in Yolo, you only

love ones. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think one of the cutest moments ever was our 25th wedding anniversary party and the kids gave speeches, and I was actually shocked at how much they absorb. [SPEAKER_01]: And Maya talked about how whatever favorite things is when she sees her parents like dancing in the [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's what I said it doesn't have to be fancy, but sometimes after we'll cook a meal and there's great music on because there's usually music playing in our house and it's another way we let the day go, they'll catch us like dancing in the kitchen and I would say, so what is three moves? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to give one move

for dual power couples, one conversation, one ritual, one nanogoscival. [SPEAKER_01]: So for me it's like [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I give so much to the kids, to my parents, to my family, to patients, to what I'm doing, that I like to be pampered, I like acts of service. [SPEAKER_01]: And so the one thing that this gentleman does every day, no matter what, is he'll either bring me a cup of coffee or we have a coffee maker that is programmed [SPEAKER_01]: So that when I go down the the coffee is ready for me, and so he's sending me a cup of coffee even if he said the hospital And so that little active love reframes my

entire day, and so what's your one power move that you think a couple that has a dual career should do? [SPEAKER_00]: I think, yeah, I think there's multiple, but I feel like when you're needed, you should be there because it's a union, it's a relationship, and there's hard times, and there's many great times, but there's many hard times as well, and sometimes the hard times come when it's not convenient for the other, but you've got to carve out. [SPEAKER_00]: a way to be there and I feel like we should always be there and we have been we should always be there for each other and for a kid's and I feel like that to me

is like a non-negotiable meaning if a kid calls and he's having some type of emergent problem that we need to drop everything and be there for them at that moment. [SPEAKER_00]: And same for your spouse, I feel like that's part of keeping the family together as being there for each other. [SPEAKER_00]: And being able to have that, you know, being able to rely on someone. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, well, always, you know, that person will always have your back. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's really, really important. [SPEAKER_01]: So on that note, always have each other's back. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening today. [SPEAKER_01]: If this helps you feel seen, share it with a couple building

something hard and worthwhile because I firmly believe if it's worthwhile, there's no easy road. [SPEAKER_01]: Subscribe to the Disruptor and tell us the ritual that keeps your house running while life gets really loud. [SPEAKER_01]: Follow, subscribe, and comment your answer below. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you sweetheart. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much. [SPEAKER_01]: I see. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't kill you. [SPEAKER_01]: No, you didn't. [SPEAKER_01]: This is more than a conversation. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a call, a call to build something better. [SPEAKER_01]: Subscribe, share, and bring more disruptors into this room. [SPEAKER_01]: For unfiltered insights and bold ideas, go to DrSomee.com to sign up for the monthly disruptor newsletter and follow us on social at DrSomee.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're not waiting for a seat at the table. [SPEAKER_01]: We're building our own table.