How To Set Healthy Boundaries, Stop People-Pleasing, & Reclaim Your Life w/ Jamie Greenwood

[SPEAKER_01]: When I think about boundaries, I really believe that we're fighting for the health of our entire system. [SPEAKER_01]: If we aren't setting the boundaries, our body will eventually explain to what the boundaries we do need to start setting. [SPEAKER_00]: Jamie Greenwood is a woman's life coach and boundaries focus mentor who helps women create sustainable lives rooted in clarity, self trust, and self compassion. [SPEAKER_01]: For some people giving and receiving boundaries can feel like a type of death. [SPEAKER_01]: When we can respect other people's boundaries, sometimes they come closer. [SPEAKER_01]: Because now they can trust you. [SPEAKER_00]: Where do you see a lot of women getting stuck when they're trying to establish boundaries? [SPEAKER_00]: The

big hurdle is the fear of causing harm. [SPEAKER_01]: if they make someone uncomfortable a little bit, that feels like causing harm. [SPEAKER_01]: What are the boundaries that you can just say, let's set those today? [SPEAKER_01]: When people are trying to get to you when you don't want them to, walk it out. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a time boundary. [SPEAKER_01]: The second is a technology boundary. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you do when there's discord and guilt? [SPEAKER_01]: Generally, when we lash out, it's because we've hit our limit of confidence. [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the practices I offer are around [SPEAKER_00]: Today, we're going to talk about the kind of boundaries that change your life, not the rigid say note

to everything kind, the ones my girls tell me to do. [SPEAKER_00]: But the ones that give you your time, energy, and identity back, welcome to the disruptor, Jamie. [SPEAKER_00]: So happy to have you. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thrilled to be here. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about your calling. [SPEAKER_00]: And what happened? [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, what first pulled you into coaching? [SPEAKER_00]: Was it a moment? [SPEAKER_00]: Was it building? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what happened? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I, I will say that I've been coaching from almost 20 years. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a while ago. [SPEAKER_01]: I was in my early 20s and I was working at a nonprofit and I, [SPEAKER_01]: Even though I was one of the

youngest people on the team, I found that I was the person that, even my boss would come to for advice. [SPEAKER_01]: And at the time, she was in her mid 40s, and I was like 23. [SPEAKER_01]: But she, and sorry, I just, I don't know, I realized that once I was in an office setting, now that I was like an adult, I was someone that people would often come to to talk to you to, [SPEAKER_01]: get advice from and so I I didn't even know what coach was but I knew that I liked it and I knew I liked having these conversations So I did some research and and realize they're like, oh, like you

can you can like go to school for this You can be trained in this and so that's that's really what it was which is a true Early on I feel very grateful actually to a farm coaching as early as I did as a career path and just [SPEAKER_01]: diving in for the last 20 years. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, God, you've been coaching as long as I've been doctoring two decades. [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like forever, but I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't feel like that. [SPEAKER_00]: What was a moment from your own life where you realized that you needed to set a boundary? [SPEAKER_00]: Like the things you teach, what was a moment from your own life

that was applicable to what you teach about boundaries? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing I just want to say is that boundaries, all of us are boundary people. [SPEAKER_01]: There is usually someone in our life that we're okay saying no to. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: But often then there are a lot of other people that we're not. [SPEAKER_01]: And I say this because I was often good at saying no to almost everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I just was like good at being like, no, I'm not going to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't like that. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not going to eat that. [SPEAKER_01]: That's my parents. [SPEAKER_01]: I was a pain from the beginning

and but let's your birth order. [SPEAKER_00]: Just real quick. [SPEAKER_00]: Where are you fall first? [SPEAKER_00]: And you were okay with saying no. [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: So no eldest daughter. [SPEAKER_00]: Stop for you. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Around student people, but not with my parents. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't get like the first obedient daughter that maybe they deserve. [SPEAKER_01]: But. [SPEAKER_01]: So boundaries in some instances were always very easy for me. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, for example, like, I was, I would never had a fear of missing out. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was fine saying no to parties. [SPEAKER_01]: I was fine saying no to drinking. [SPEAKER_01]: I was fine. [SPEAKER_01]: I just knew that if

it wasn't good for me, I could say no. [SPEAKER_01]: And then as I got older, I had to look at the places where I was afraid to say no. [SPEAKER_01]: And the people who I was afraid to say no, too. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, because I, I liked to think that I was like strong and could say no to anybody, and then when I actually became a coach and then you have to do your own work turns out. [SPEAKER_01]: I started doing my own work. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, there are a whole strad as of people that I. [SPEAKER_01]: just people please with. [SPEAKER_01]: And so good at being charming and amenable and kind of contorting

myself into whatever box they watch for me. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's the same advice I give healers. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like healed by self, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You have to take care of yourself before you can take on taking care of patients. [SPEAKER_00]: And so where you work with a lot of women, correct? [SPEAKER_00]: As a kid. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a woman. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's about 75% women. [SPEAKER_00]: So where do you see a lot of women getting stuck in this process when they're trying to establish boundaries? [SPEAKER_00]: Or stick to boundaries or where? [SPEAKER_00]: Where in the process are they getting stuck? [SPEAKER_00]: Or even making them? [SPEAKER_01]: The big hurdle is the fear of causing harm, they

really do not want to cause any harm. [SPEAKER_01]: And when we get deeper into the harm, what they're often realizing is that if someone is uncomfortable, they feel like they've caused harm. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's not like they're actually stabbing anyone or you know, like doing anything drastic, it's just if they make someone uncomfortable a little bit that feels like causing harm which then prevents the boundary from even happening so a lot of my work is first getting them comfortable with the uncomfortable really building up the resilience to be with [SPEAKER_01]: delivering information that may not land well. [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's the big fear, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to build up the strength and I'm going

to set the boundary and it is not going to go well. [SPEAKER_01]: And so what do I do with that? [SPEAKER_00]: So then in essence, there's guilt or there's fear of hurting someone. [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you take this mindset and turn boundaries? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, flowers say flip the script. [SPEAKER_00]: When I'm talking to people about their sexual health, [SPEAKER_00]: How do you then change boundaries into something positive that actually feels empowering for the people you work with? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, so what are the things I ask them is, how do you deal with boundaries? [SPEAKER_01]: When someone sets a boundary with you, how do you deal with it? [SPEAKER_01]: And from there, if they're

like, it's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm cold with it. [SPEAKER_01]: I was, whatever, I'm like, OK, so is there any possible way that the person receiving your boundary [SPEAKER_01]: One of the issues is that people start telling stories about what's going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: Except out knowing what's actually going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: So one is kind of unlocking the idea that they already know what is going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: Two is what if people respond to boundaries that what you respond to them, which is your fine? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, then it's a win for everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other pieces, if they don't handle it well, [SPEAKER_01]: What's your biggest fear after that? [SPEAKER_01]: Are

you afraid of getting yelled at? [SPEAKER_01]: Are you afraid of a rupture? [SPEAKER_01]: And once we can name what they're afraid of, we can then deal with that thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Because there are so many tools and methods for dealing with a rupture. [SPEAKER_01]: There are so many tools and tricks for dealing with disappointment either your own or someone else is. [SPEAKER_01]: So empowerment comes by peeling back the layers around the fear and the resistance. [SPEAKER_01]: You really see it clearly. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it's also important to get to the why? [SPEAKER_00]: Part of the biosychosocial model that I apply in sexual health or in menopause is not only talking about someone's health history and

vital signs and medications that they're on and their hormones, but also talking about the psychology, like, what do they feel about sex? [SPEAKER_00]: What do they feel about their own body? [SPEAKER_00]: And so don't you think that a- [SPEAKER_00]: I can tell you, I was raised in a household where you didn't put up boundaries because culturally you were just, if someone needed help, even if it was an expense to your own health, finances, social situation, inconvenience. [SPEAKER_00]: you did it. [SPEAKER_00]: You laid it on the line, and particularly if it was for family, like my parents, I remember when I first went to medical school, would hand out my cell phone number, and people would

like call me, and when I first told them to stop doing that, they were like what you're being rude. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: Um, this person called me at midnight to ask for medical advice, and I said, and I have young children, and I had to work the next day, like, that's not being rude. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they need to find a doctor, it's not okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say I, as a 50 year old woman, I'm still learning how to set. [SPEAKER_00]: personal boundaries and even professional boundaries, you know, so I can't tell you how it happens at a cocktail party. [SPEAKER_00]: People like, well I've got this in this and this, can

you just give me, I'm like, yeah, let me just give you your whole medical plan and do everything right now. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I love helping people. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was very, very hard for me to learn. [SPEAKER_00]: to set boundaries, because to me, it felt like I was disappointing people. [SPEAKER_00]: More than hurting people, I felt like I was letting them down, you know, because they knew I had the skill set to help, but then I'm not helping, like, what's wrong with me? [SPEAKER_00]: So it was very hard for me. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: When you set it before the Y, why is really important? [SPEAKER_01]: And in my work, I talk about why, through sites

of shaping. [SPEAKER_01]: So we are, if you think about sites of shaping like concentric circles, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Your shape or family, and then your shape by your community, and then your shaped by the state that you live in, and then your shaped by your country, and within that, you're also shaped by the norms of that place. [SPEAKER_01]: you're shaped by the systems of that place, right? [SPEAKER_01]: All of these sites of shaping impact your why. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't just happen to be kind of awkward with boundaries. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just like how you were born, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's all of these areas in sites of shape, which you just named right family, big site of

shaping when it comes to our ability to hold a line or not. [SPEAKER_01]: And I really appreciate your naming disappointment from that, from the family perspective, because that's very weighty, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Because it wasn't just disappointing your family. [SPEAKER_01]: You were disappointing every person who had your phone number. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't want to do that, because it's the antithesis of almost the ethos of, I don't want to say who I am as a human being, but most doctors, we go into it to help people. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what you want to do, right? [SPEAKER_00]: to do these crazy hours and to go into crazy debt. [SPEAKER_00]: And

so you have to love what you do and you want to help people, but at some point you have to say, I have to be healthy, I have to get sleep, I have to be able to have family time and not get disrupted. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm sorry, I'm going to get from this board game or this movie because I've got to answer this phone call for someone who needs help. [SPEAKER_00]: on a night where I'm not on call, and I realized not only was I being unfair to myself, but I was being unfair to my family. [SPEAKER_00]: And so a lot of life lessons in learning had to set those boundaries. [SPEAKER_00]: And for me,

I'm sure I'm like a lot of your clients where I just felt like time was my biggest commodity that I did not have. [SPEAKER_00]: I was very poor calendar manager, particularly [SPEAKER_00]: like founder, entrepreneur space, running a business, but then also seeing patients. [SPEAKER_00]: My calendar just felt like it was out of control because I didn't know how to set boundaries, I didn't know how to say no. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I found myself double in triple-blocked and trying to please everybody. [SPEAKER_00]: And they didn't meet a very nice version of me. [SPEAKER_00]: They met a very burned out version of me. [SPEAKER_00]: And I even had someone [SPEAKER_00]: Say to me who met me on

stage, they're like, where is that girl that, you know, lit the world? [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I'm like, she's exhausted and needed to go to bed like 10 days ago. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she's full speed, she's crispy. [SPEAKER_01]: She's exhausted and tired, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that term, crispy, because like, burnt to a crisp. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I heard. [SPEAKER_01]: You were, you were burnt to a crisp. [SPEAKER_01]: There was nothing left. [SPEAKER_01]: There was no juice. [SPEAKER_01]: There was no vitality. [SPEAKER_01]: There was no water. [SPEAKER_01]: You were just dry. [SPEAKER_01]: It is, you know, it's especially, I know you work in sexual health, like it is, it's bad news. [SPEAKER_00]: It's bad news, it's

bad news. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dryness is never a good thing, in sexual health care. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's just go there. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's run. [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm so sorry, what is so like someone like me and someone like you're you're I keep on saying patience, but people that you work with what are the two to three boundaries that you Just say immediately that you need to set like for someone like me who was running on empty Who was burnt like what are two or three easy ones that you know you can just say okay, let's set those today You're what you named the first one which is reclaiming your time [SPEAKER_01]: It takes a lot of

strength, but it's actually very simple. [SPEAKER_01]: Especially if you live your life by a calendar, you just block out anytime when people are trying to get to you when you don't want them to, you just block an act. [SPEAKER_01]: Another way and the second thing, so that's a time of boundary. [SPEAKER_01]: The second thing is a technology boundary, creating boundaries around your phone. [SPEAKER_01]: So you're not answering texts all day long, right? [SPEAKER_01]: You maybe are answering them. [SPEAKER_01]: in the morning and in the evening. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I am a mother, I have so many children. [SPEAKER_01]: And only three, but it feels like a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, the school texts, you know,

that there's a lot that there are a lot of people who want to get to me in the middle of the day. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I can check my phone in the middle of the day, but I do not answer my phone in the middle of the day unless it's absolutely necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: So there's that boundary that you can play with to around technology. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, am I hiding my phone? [SPEAKER_01]: or am I keeping it near me and I can check it but I'm not answering it because the other piece of this is the minute a text comes in feeling obligated to be there for that person answer that text, give them whatever

they need because we think that we have to deliver promptly all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing and that's a lot of the changes that my executive coach had me do. [SPEAKER_00]: She had me like take ownership of my calendar. [SPEAKER_00]: I felt so guilty, like I color coded everything, so like work, doctor, you know, like personal stuff, but even I remember putting that focus time in, which allowed me to actually do the work from the meetings or read the emails or come up with the classes. [SPEAKER_00]: I felt so guilty, putting that time on my calendar, but it was time that I needed, and I remember her saying, we were wanting to do it in

the weekends, and the evenings, like when you're supposed to be with your family, she's like, you have to build that focus time in where people can't interrupt you, and then people did definitely try to test those boundaries, by booking stuff over. [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, well, it wasn't mandatory. [SPEAKER_00]: It's focused time. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, no, but I have XYZ due by this date. [SPEAKER_00]: I have to, [SPEAKER_00]: have that focus time. [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise I'm doing it at 6 a.m. or 5 a.m. or I'm giving up a workout or I'm giving up dinner with my kids, and so... [SPEAKER_00]: I wanna flip to like pushing those boundaries and another hot button topic, at least it's been

coming across my social media feeds, which is no contact. [SPEAKER_00]: And I will tell you in our family, boundaries were interpreted as, oh, she's cut us off. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, we can't hand out our cell phone anymore, or you know, she's cut this person off because you told someone, no, or you can't, like I am a friend and we're no longer friends because she was coming through Cincinnati [SPEAKER_00]: young children and we were really good friends and I had a grand opening event at her MD. [SPEAKER_00]: And she always used to stay with me and she's like, can I stay at your place? [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I want to see you, but it's

really inconvenient. [SPEAKER_00]: I have a 200-person event. [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot have a family of six over. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, she's never spoken to me again, Jamie. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, ever again after that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that was it because she was so hurt by that. [SPEAKER_00]: I think, or so mad, that was it. [SPEAKER_00]: And we had such an incredible friendship. [SPEAKER_00]: But I said no in those were the consequences. [SPEAKER_00]: But let's talk about doing that, like when someone goes non-contact, let's differentiate. [SPEAKER_00]: You are not saying that. [SPEAKER_00]: Boundaries are very, or it should be very healthy, right? [SPEAKER_00]: No contact can be healthy, but they are not the same thing, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's break

that down. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for this. [SPEAKER_01]: First, I'm, well, I'm really sorry that that happened with your now ex friend because, well, because I will say that for some people giving and receiving boundaries can feel like a type of death. [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like you're dying. [SPEAKER_01]: You can't, you can't believe that someone has said no to you. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a whole backstory there. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I just want to say that was probably very painful to receive and also, [SPEAKER_01]: painful on her side, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously there was a heat for her to let go of that. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here. [SPEAKER_01]: It must have been a huge pain in that for

her. [SPEAKER_01]: When you were just stating, with love, what you needed for yourself in your life at that moment. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's actually what boundaries are. [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite, my favorite definition of boundaries is from a facilitator and an educator and a writer and a conflict. [SPEAKER_01]: collaborator, newgo cheater, the apprentice hemp hill, and they say that boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and myself simultaneously. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love that so much. [SPEAKER_00]: I've never heard that before. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that so much. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I think bone res are. [SPEAKER_01]: They are, [SPEAKER_01]: a negotiation around space where I can love myself and I can love you at

the same time. [SPEAKER_01]: So no contact for me doesn't really fit into that definition. [SPEAKER_01]: No contact is someone is dangerous and I have to never see that person again. [SPEAKER_01]: Like no contact absolutely is on the table but it is extreme. [SPEAKER_01]: It's, I find it to be very extreme. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, there might be people in your life where you need to take moments of no contact. [SPEAKER_01]: I have absolutely done that. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I need no contact for like eight weeks. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's check it in eight weeks. [SPEAKER_01]: And there is no contact for eight weeks. [SPEAKER_01]: But the no contact forever and ever they're dead to me. [SPEAKER_01]: I will also

say that when we do that, if we do that prematurely, we lose all of the learning [SPEAKER_01]: Like there is so much learning in setting loving boundaries and having communicative conversations. [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the reasons why our country is so sideways right now is that if you're different than someone you can't talk and everyone's just no contacting each other, it doesn't work for good society. [SPEAKER_00]: And for the person who may be subject to that no contact, rightfully or unrightfully so. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say like for me, I feel like in that moment, I didn't deserve to lose a friend because I prioritized work over being a host and said I could not do both,

but it feels like an [SPEAKER_00]: and you receive the boundary, you're trying to be respectful. [SPEAKER_00]: But then you also feel like this grief, this death, it comes with a redness prolific article in Oprah Daily about this woman who wrote a eulogy about her sister that was still alive because she mourned, [SPEAKER_00]: the first no contact and then it was a full of strange meant as if, you know, she was dead and talks about how people don't recognize the grief that can come. [SPEAKER_00]: when, like you said, when it's an extreme situation, and especially when there's this dichotomy, it's almost like going back to sexual health care, when there's this like really high libido for

men or low for women, and there's this discord. [SPEAKER_00]: So same thing with, I guess, going back to boundaries, what do you do when there's discord? [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of guilt. [SPEAKER_00]: How do you recommend handling that? [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to clarify that the discord and guilt is being felt by the person who wants to set the boundary. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, or who's receiving the boundary. [SPEAKER_01]: I say both. [SPEAKER_01]: Both. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, how much more time do we have? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing, like you talk about this with your clients and I talk about this with my patients, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because they're trying to set boundaries with work, with their children, with

maybe their lovers, like this is at working for me, and the hurt in the most extreme cases may not be a strange but but divorce, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And so how do you handle it on both sides of the equation? [SPEAKER_01]: So much of boundary work. [SPEAKER_01]: is stretching our capacity to be with what's uncomfortable. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because generally when we lash out, it's because we've hit our limit of comfort. [SPEAKER_01]: We are now, we can no longer hold inside the discomfort and so it just let all over everyone else, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Whether that is a boundary or a no contact or, you know, when everything's getting streamed, it's because we've hit our limit of capacity.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of the things that I work on and a lot of the practices I offer around, how do I build capacity to be with, to be with my guilt, to be with the fact that I am not seeing, I'd, I, with this person and something has to be done, but I'm not sure what it is. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, really building our to use your word capacity for discord. [SPEAKER_01]: And we have to be able to stretch into that. [SPEAKER_01]: And for most of us, that is our life's work, because it's hard. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm sure there are a few lawyers that really love discord. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, really love the

fight. [SPEAKER_01]: But for most of us, and for anyone who sees themselves as a doer, a fixer, a people pleaser, a giver, a person who serves, [SPEAKER_01]: Discord is the antithesis of what we wouldn't put it out into the world. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And don't you think that if people don't take the time to do the work that I am a firm believer in some adaptation, like you are going to get ill, you are going to have symptoms. [SPEAKER_00]: The most common ones that I see in midlife and with women are in Somnia, mood swings. [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're already having the hormonal changes. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, problems with their GI system, whether it's getting an

upset stomach, or not being able to eat because they're just so nervous or jittery or fluttery, or I just don't feel like myself. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I recommend to my patients that you've got to deal with the discomfort. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to take this head on. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to go through the grief, through the boundary, through whatever it is. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to feel all the feels. [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, it's going to present in some other way. [SPEAKER_00]: Like your health is going to catch up with you. [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't agree more. [SPEAKER_01]: Do we have time for a story? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I want to give you a story from

my own life. [SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of stories from clients as well, but this is a biggie. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was in a previous life married to somebody else. [SPEAKER_01]: And we got married and we were young, we were in our early 20s, and I had been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease called Ulster of Clydes when I was 19. [SPEAKER_01]: So this was an illness that I had before I met this person. [SPEAKER_01]: But after our marriage and in the six years that we were married, it just got worse and worse and worse. [SPEAKER_01]: I was in a 10-year flare-up. [SPEAKER_01]: I was in a flare up for 10 years. [SPEAKER_01]: And for me,

a flare up looked like incredible abdominal pain, all day long, and rectal bleeding every single day. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was terrifying. [SPEAKER_01]: I was literally seeing my life's energy leave my body every single day. [SPEAKER_01]: And towards the end of our marriage, I did not know the end of our marriage was coming. [SPEAKER_01]: I was just getting sicker and sicker. [SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: Fast forward, he went out of town for a weekend and came back and when he came back, he said, I don't want to be married to anyone. [SPEAKER_01]: And I have been so sick that honestly Dr. Somi, I thought I was gonna die. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like this, this stress of now

getting a divorce is going to kill me and it took about three weeks but in three weeks after realizing that we were done, all of my symptoms went away. [SPEAKER_00]: Like so your marriage was literally the stress was was killing you and it was amplifying the underlying autoimmune condition that you have because we know this when women go through stress, inflammation is horrible for us, horrible for us, terrible. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I then had to look at all of the ways in which I wasn't telling the truth. [SPEAKER_01]: all the ways in which I was not setting boundaries, all the ways in which I was not speaking, the truth of my deep unhappiness, I wouldn't

even face. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I, you know, I am so grateful, honestly, to my ex-husband for ending it. [SPEAKER_01]: because I don't know if I would have, and he, his bravery, set me free to be honest, that I also was desperately unhappy. [SPEAKER_01]: But because I had said, yes, I will marry you, and I believe that that was like a document written in blood, I was never going to leave. [SPEAKER_01]: I was just never going to say no. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, [SPEAKER_01]: I share all of that because when I think about boundaries in my own life and when I try and get my clients in touch with the boundaries of their life, I really believe that

we're fighting for the health of our entire system. [SPEAKER_01]: That if we aren't telling the truth, our body will eventually speak up. [SPEAKER_01]: If we aren't setting the boundaries, our body will eventually explain to us what boundaries we do need to start setting. [SPEAKER_01]: Because when your body goes sideways, you have to set boundaries, because you literally [SPEAKER_01]: You can't move forward anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: And so do you think, because this is language you use through your divorce, and then starting to heal, were you coming home to yourself? [SPEAKER_00]: I really, that was a beautiful circle of tie-in. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little bit of a storyteller and I love to hang together, yes. [SPEAKER_01]:

Love it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I do use the language a lot of, [SPEAKER_01]: Helping my clients come home to themselves. [SPEAKER_01]: And I also, in my teenage years, I was anorexic. [SPEAKER_01]: And then in my 20s was orthorexic, which is kind of an obsession with healthy eating, which was related also to my ulcer to colitis, thinking that I ate a certain way. [SPEAKER_01]: I could heal myself. [SPEAKER_01]: And all of that is really examples of how I was at war with myself. [SPEAKER_01]: And how there are so many of us whether it be around, how we think about our bodies, how we experience our bodies, or just in general, we are at war with ourselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when we can be brave and set boundaries and start saying, no, and find compassion for ourselves, that's when we come home to ourselves. [SPEAKER_00]: Well chronic disease is a scary thing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very scary thing, and especially for women and patients who are used to control, that's what you find is that we try to control it because it feels so out of control, and it feels like something that is happening to us or at us rather than us being able to control it. [SPEAKER_00]: And so part of [SPEAKER_00]: My work with patients who have chronic conditions is really empowering them and educating them about what's going on, so they don't feel like

they've been hit with a mac truck, particularly when they have flares, recognizing what's going on, understanding their anatomy. [SPEAKER_00]: So that they do have that, you know, that real care that they deserve and rather than being a silent observer, that they're an active participant, meaning that they take control back where they can. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what you were trying to do with the obsessive eating, but, you know, a little maybe a little bit too far and you see that with patients who are trying to, I don't want to see it over correct, but just trying to get some control back or some understanding in a healthcare system that's really not meant for us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, well, I don't know about your patients, but my clients are very good students. [SPEAKER_01]: They just are like, just tell me what to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's name the problem and just tell me what to do. [SPEAKER_01]: And so before it became a life, a somatic life and leadership coach, I was a health coach. [SPEAKER_01]: And I would have people show up and just like, like, just give me the ABCDs and I'll do it perfectly. [SPEAKER_01]: And they would, and sometimes, you know, they would see benefits, but if they were still battling with the control piece, [SPEAKER_01]: there was only so much healing they could do because ultimately when it comes to our

health there were so many aspects and there was kind of, I know I'm saying this to a physician but there is kind of like a magic in the body like we don't know how every single thing works like there is, there is some sort of magic there that, you know, yes we feed our body well, yes hopefully we're getting enough rest, you know, we're getting our vitamin D, we're like, we're doing the things that we need to do but if something like, [SPEAKER_01]: Truth-telling is out of alignment. [SPEAKER_01]: If something like people pleasing has utterly taken over your life, there's only so much physical healing you can do. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I can't agree with you

more, and it's something that is so underthought, undervalued in the traditional medical system. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, mental health was truly... [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a psychiatric rotation where we learned about disease, like, you know, bipolar, depression, anxiety. [SPEAKER_00]: But did we talk about things, you know, like you're talking about, setting boundaries and time management and not having things that are not in alignment with who we are and making sure even we're getting enough sleep or we're meditating. [SPEAKER_00]: No, we talked about, okay, here's pharmacotherapy for anxiety, here, you know, here it is for depression. [SPEAKER_00]: These are the, you know, and not that those diseases and conditions, I treat them all the time as a physician

and they deserve recognition and they are very important. [SPEAKER_00]: But did we truly learn mental health? [SPEAKER_00]: No, we didn't. [SPEAKER_00]: Are we trying to now and catch up and treat the whole person? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Have I personally, as a doctor, founder, mother, been sideline by burning myself to, you know, a crisp? [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, and mine presented with a verbal or as, so the most famous example was newscaster who was doing a report and she went from speaking, clearly, to unintelligible, and then completely a phasic, not speaking. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a podcaster, TEDx. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been in documentaries. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a public speaker. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I gave 67 talks last year. [SPEAKER_00]: And

that exact thing happened to me while I was on stage. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was in the throws of fundraising and traveling and seeing patients in five different states. [SPEAKER_00]: And I had just pushed my body to the limit. [SPEAKER_00]: And my coach had been telling me, and my doctor had told me if something doesn't change, something is going to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: And boy, boy, Jay, we did it. [SPEAKER_00]: Ever, six months of speech therapy. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm still at medications to control it. [SPEAKER_00]: But the zone of chaos of parrymenopause combined with the lifestyle stress, [SPEAKER_00]: And I, things had to go. [SPEAKER_00]: I finally changed a lot in my life. [SPEAKER_00]: I sold my

company. [SPEAKER_00]: I in December of last year stopped seeing patients. [SPEAKER_00]: And now I choose when and how I'm going to work and where I can make the greatest impact. [SPEAKER_00]: There are still times that my speech catches up with me if I've pushed myself to too hard, but luckily I've recovered, but they had to rule out tumor, stroke, ALS, MS, all the stuff, and I ignored it. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that I could doctor my way out of it and that I could maneuver around it and I ignored every single sign in symptom and so we're going to go into that as my never again. [SPEAKER_00]: Never again will I compromise

my own health? [SPEAKER_00]: for a business, for a patient, for a favor, for anyone ever again, because my family and I would have suffered the consequences, not everyone else. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, and I'm replaceable, and every one of those titles, except for mom and wife. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, for me, my never again is, I will never compromise my own health. [SPEAKER_00]: So, what about you? [SPEAKER_00]: What's your never again? [SPEAKER_00]: Or what's your belief that has changed for you? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I have so many things I want to ask you when I'm going to say it for when you're a guest on my podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: Mine never again is I'm never again going to

stuff the truths that I know. [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, because I'm a very intuitive person. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a very quick thinking person. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a very quick understanding person of the situation. [SPEAKER_01]: So I know my truth. [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty quickly in most scenarios. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't struggle with that. [SPEAKER_01]: What I've struggled with is getting it out. [SPEAKER_01]: And so never again, will I not let it out? [SPEAKER_01]: And for better or worse, my partner now at him, [SPEAKER_01]: He gets it all, he gets it all, with love and compassion. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, just the other day, he did something, I was like, I just want you to know that that really hurt my feelings. [SPEAKER_01]:

And that, which is actually a huge step for me, because instead, I historically would have just been like, whatever, it's no big deal, just get over it. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would have stood, and then I would have become resentful, and then maybe I would have lashed out at my seven year old, or I would have lashed out at him later, and he would have been like, what the heck is going on? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when we're brave enough to tell the truth in the moment, it actually saves us from future harm that we were already scared of. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, for all of my clients who are afraid of causing harm, there's almost always

harm when we don't tell the truth. [SPEAKER_01]: There's almost always a cost to someone and that someone is usually us when we don't tell the truth. [SPEAKER_00]: And now you're in a safe relationship where you can express and should express how you feel and I feel like women should accept no less. [SPEAKER_00]: You should be able to be in a relationship where you can express yourself and you don't have to sue. [SPEAKER_00]: Whether it comes to your boundaries, whether it comes to your needs, whether it comes to your hormones, like your sexual health like today is not the day [SPEAKER_00]: over explaining yourself. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we can make it quick and efficient and

just say, hey, this is what's going on and you just need to respect it, but I'm so happy that you are in a relationship now where there is that element of, and I don't know if safety is the right word, but comfort, safety, whatever you want to say, where you are able to communicate that and not only communicate it, but it's heard and received, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's not disrespected, it's not dismissed, [SPEAKER_00]: Pupude, like a lot of women feel, like they are. [SPEAKER_01]: Because I will say my partner while he has a very strong ego, he holds it softly. [SPEAKER_01]: Meaning, I can come to him and say, this thing, I didn't like this thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, [SPEAKER_01]: All right, fair. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I could see that. [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of being like, what, I didn't do anything wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: What are you talking about? [SPEAKER_01]: Right? [SPEAKER_01]: While he has self-confidence, he's not armored up in his ego self-confidence, which a lot of all of us, not just men, but a lot of women too. [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the reasons why some women cannot handle boundaries being laid for them either. [SPEAKER_01]: It's because their ego is too tight around their bodies that they just can't let anything in. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no humility. [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, oh, that's your experience. [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting, right, the moment we personalize something, the moment we personalize

a boundary, it's getting into dangerous territory, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas when someone's at the boundary with me, that would be my children every single day, like when my nine-year-olds, I love her, when my nine-year-olds like, mama know, like, don't kiss me. [SPEAKER_01]: I can, I have, I have three options. [SPEAKER_01]: I can either be like, oh, you will. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just smash my face onto her face. [SPEAKER_01]: The second option is unlike fine. [SPEAKER_01]: And I back away and I'm cold. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just shut her out because she's hurt my feelings. [SPEAKER_01]: Or three. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the one I choose, but it's hard, which is her body, her choice. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't

mean she doesn't love me. [SPEAKER_01]: It just means right now she doesn't wanna be kissed. [SPEAKER_01]: That's all that means, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't take it personally. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't take it that she hates me or that she's being mean to me. [SPEAKER_01]: I take it as, this is what she needs in the moment. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for telling me. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think those kids keep us humble and I got a boundary myself today. [SPEAKER_00]: Picks up my youngest, 16, just wait, Jamie. [SPEAKER_00]: It got's even better. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no. [SPEAKER_00]: How was today? [SPEAKER_00]: Not good. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to talk about it? [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone and everything are getting on my nerves. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, that's normal. [SPEAKER_00]: That can happen and so then Put on some Taylor Swift because we both left Taylor Swift offered say hey, do you want to grab a coffee or a chai or a tea or do you want to order something on door dash? [SPEAKER_00]: No [SPEAKER_00]: drove home listening to music and like everything's fine and there's no big like talk to me tell me she will when she's ready or if she needs to at all but that was hard for me because I'm like she's my youngest and I'm a fixer, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to fix it I want I have

a lot of experience and [SPEAKER_00]: I've raised two other kids, and I want to help, but she's fiercely independent and didn't want it, and I had to accept it. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like, okay, I'm just gonna back off, but I can offer coffee or tea or, you know, some music and a peaceful drive. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I would love to slow that down just for a second. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how did you find the resilience in yourself to not take that personally, to not let the hurt stick [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like it was like an immediate like, oh, but then you kind of flushed it through, what take me through the process of how

you did that? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I would say a lot of experience. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you talked about your clients being really good students. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm a really, really good teacher, but I'm a really good student. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm confident, but extraordinarily humble. [SPEAKER_00]: Like someone once described me as it was hysterical. [SPEAKER_00]: She had met, like read about me, and she's like, you're the least, [SPEAKER_00]: high maintenance or the most low maintenance high maintenance person I've ever met in my entire life and so I would say Jamie messing up a thousand times and then finally hearing it and going okay you know what I don't have to fix everything and that's not what

she needs in this moment and [SPEAKER_00]: Also, even like looking at, well, I would have wanted, you know, advice and I would have wanted someone to fix it, but that's not what she needs. [SPEAKER_00]: And so looking at her body language, learning from my own mistakes with the other two. [SPEAKER_00]: And even encounters with patients, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because I dealt with teenagers, 13 to end of life as a gynecologist. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I would say failing and failing and failing over again, but being willing to learn from my failures and from my mistakes. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how I got over the, you know, and just rolling with it. [SPEAKER_00]: And seeing and then enjoying the

positive that comes from it, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like the later. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Mom, do you want to do something else instead? [SPEAKER_00]: Like once the moment's over. [SPEAKER_01]: It is incredible what happens when you respect a boundary. [SPEAKER_01]: Because when we can respect other people's boundaries, like this is where we are and someone sets a boundary. [SPEAKER_01]: If we respect it, sometimes they come closer. [SPEAKER_01]: They like, because now they can trust you. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I said a boundary and you respect it. [SPEAKER_01]: OK. [SPEAKER_01]: Now what? [SPEAKER_01]: We can move closer. [SPEAKER_01]: So remembering that to on our end, if we are the ones who need to set boundaries and we do and someone respects

it, remember that. [SPEAKER_01]: They're listening to you. [SPEAKER_01]: They want to be an engagement with you. [SPEAKER_01]: So trusting that you can then take that next step to heal your relationship if that's what needs to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: So what do you work, I feel like we could talk forever. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm guess I'm going to have to come on your podcast and we can break down now. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I want you already scheduled. [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: You're so wonderful. [SPEAKER_00]: There, see, look at my calendar management skills. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad it go. [SPEAKER_00]: I've trusted the team. [SPEAKER_00]: So what are you working on now that you're super excited about? [SPEAKER_01]: I was at I

still see private clients. [SPEAKER_01]: So I am constantly fed by my one-on-one work. [SPEAKER_01]: I also run a coaching circle for what I call busy moms who are ready to dive in called homecoming and I am in the third month of our six months together and I am loving that just yesterday we had an in person retreat. [SPEAKER_01]: And to be with these six women, diving into the deep work, we actually, next month we're doing boundaries, but this section was all about the energy to initiate. [SPEAKER_01]: And the energy to be clear and be brave in what we want to move towards. [SPEAKER_01]: It was just humbling, soul-filling, deeply powerful. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, homecoming is just

my favorite. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that, but you know, asking you that question, I almost feel guilty because so, you know, after a decade, I sold her MD and I've been, you know, practicing for two decades. [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, [SPEAKER_00]: One of my friends was watching me this weekend because I was at an event and everyone's like, what's next? [SPEAKER_00]: What's next? [SPEAKER_00]: And I said to him over brunch, I said, you know that feeling as a woman when you are dating and people are like, what are you gonna get engaged? [SPEAKER_00]: And then I went to get married and then when you got kids and you were a kid and like, what do you have

another kid? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I just sold a company that I built from an idea. [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, and I'm still out there speaking, and advocating, and educating, and podcasting, and working on a book, and he goes, you're over explaining yourself. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, you don't have to explain everything, and he goes, what's your biggest fear? [SPEAKER_00]: And I started laughing ago, I don't want people to think that I've become a lady who blunches, and he goes, what's wrong with a lady that lunches? [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, you've earned your stripes, and I said, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, we'll have to break that down when I talk to you, and he goes, [SPEAKER_00]:

Just just help people that you're in a purposeful pause and you're doing the things that you want to do. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, that's the truth. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, didn't you just sign up for X, Y, and Z? [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, yes, and he's like, aren't you going to do this, this and this? [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, then why do you care? [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're right. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I should just say enjoying being on the side of the VC, you know, whole equation and start a life and enjoying being an exited founder. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I should stay instead of like trying to tell

them I've got this and this and this and this. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because it's connected to hustling for forgiveness. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we're, you're the minute you start giving all the things that you're doing, you're hustling for forgiveness. [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you ask me that [SPEAKER_01]: What I, I mean, I told you what I'm doing, which I do love and I love it, but I'm I'm not necessarily looking for like exponential growth like homecoming is a beautiful offering and I love giving it every single year, but I'm not looking for an explosion of now it's a 150 person group like I'm just I'm so not interested in that like I I love where my life is

now I'm not actually looking for like big external growths that would make other people impressed. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that you said that because I told my husband if nothing else happens with my career like the people have met the people I have gotten to speak to the experiences I've had like I'm good, I'm happy, I'm content, it's more than I ever could have dreamed of as a young child growing up in Ohio. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I've said but I also know I get bored and I'm 50 so I'm not [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine, and I think if we are people that tend to get bored being honest with that, and you have a whole second

half, right? [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a whole other life that you could live, but it's about to your point, purpose, intentionality, instead of just going as hard as big as you can so that people will just think you're on fire and amazing, it's more, how do I want to spend my time? [SPEAKER_01]: What matters to me? [SPEAKER_01]: This gets into expectations. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are the internal expectations that I'm willing to let go of? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm brave enough to then let go of the external expectations that are on every working mother on planet Earth. [SPEAKER_00]: On all of us. [SPEAKER_00]: And so if there is one sentence from today that you either want

to come up with now or from our conversation that you want to repeat, what do you want people [SPEAKER_01]: On the other side of the boundaries you set, is your freedom. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and freedom is such a beautiful thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Such a beautiful thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's what success looks like being able to set your, you know, being free and being able to spend your time the way you want. [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you so much for the conversation today. [SPEAKER_00]: It was awesome having you. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait for I want to say like part two, but it's going to be on your podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: So where can people find you? [SPEAKER_00]: Where can

people find you, Jamie? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, well, so one of the big boundaries of my life is I am not on Instagram. [SPEAKER_01]: I am not on social media. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't do any of that because it was making me feel terrible. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to find me, you can find me on my website at Jamiegreenwith.co. [SPEAKER_01]: You can find me at my podcast, which is the path home. [SPEAKER_01]: And I am on LinkedIn at Jamie Greenwood. [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess that's considered a social media, [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for being with us today. [SPEAKER_00]: If this episode moved you to disrupt your own life in a positive way, share it with a

friend, thank you so much for listening. [SPEAKER_00]: This is more than a conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a call, a call to build something better. [SPEAKER_00]: Subscribe, share, and bring more disruptors into this room. [SPEAKER_00]: For unfiltered insights and bold ideas, go to DrSomeet.com to sign up for the monthly disruptor newsletter and follow us on social at DrSomeet. [SPEAKER_00]: We're not waiting for a seat at the table. [SPEAKER_00]: We're building our own table.