The Real Reason Why Women Are Leaving Traditional Medicine w/ Dr. Taniqua Miller

[SPEAKER_02]: We were influenced to go into medicine with the promise that we can take care of people. [SPEAKER_02]: Now we have a system that makes it almost impossible to do so. [SPEAKER_02]: It is either you leave, adapt, or become burnt out. [SPEAKER_00]: Female surgeons and physicians have better outcomes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yet six to seven years into our career. [SPEAKER_00]: We go part-time or we leave traditional medicine altogether. [SPEAKER_02]: your value was counted in points. [SPEAKER_02]: Not in the care that you were delivering. [SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't work for women. [SPEAKER_02]: Women will do the work, but we don't have the recognition for the work that we do. [SPEAKER_00]: Women are building in their 40s and 50s. [SPEAKER_00]:

Why do you think this is happening and why did you do it? [SPEAKER_02]: I felt so muted in the system. [SPEAKER_02]: I was becoming undone. [SPEAKER_02]: And it occurred to me that this was no longer serving me. [SPEAKER_00]: I have to be of service to myself and I don't know why at first it felt selfish. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of shaming and how we need to take care of ourselves. [SPEAKER_02]: You just think it's normal and no one's there to tell you otherwise. [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Disruptor. [SPEAKER_00]: I am so excited for today's guest. [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Tanikwa Miller is a board-certified OBGYN, a certified menopause specialist, and the founder of Revival Women's Health, a

concierge to mid-life and menopause practice in Decatur, Georgia. [SPEAKER_00]: She specializes in helping women navigate parry menopause, menopause, sexual health, and cardiometabolic changes with evidence-based, deeply personalized care, with training shaped by both Harvard and Yale. [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Miller blends Ivy League rigor with warm relationship centered approach that helps women feel seen, heard, and fully supported in midlife. [SPEAKER_00]: Through a viable, she is reimagining women's health care as a true medical home where expertise, access, and belonging come together. [SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing I want to talk to you about, because I've been doing a lot of reading about this, and you and I have both left traditional jobs in medicine. [SPEAKER_00]: And so when I

was reading that female surgeons and physicians have lower-read mission rates for patients, have better outcomes that women are less likely to die if they're cardiologist [SPEAKER_00]: is female than male, like my mother's male and she almost died at 45, but yet despite our better outcomes, we on average six to seven years into our career, [SPEAKER_00]: either modify our schedule, meaning go part-time, leave, maybe do be part, or we leave medicine, traditional medicine altogether. [SPEAKER_02]: Altogether. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, why do you, why do you think this is happening and why did you do it? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because there's so much of a spotlight on medicine, especially like within Sharon's

premiums rising and all of these things and we were both in a system where you were literally your value was counted in points, right, not in the care that you were delivering, but how many patients you were seeing, it was definitely a quantity over a quality issue. [SPEAKER_02]: And I will say, that doesn't work for women. [SPEAKER_02]: You [SPEAKER_02]: Like the way that I see women step up as like the caregivers in their communities, the friendships that we have like women, we will do the work. [SPEAKER_02]: But what happens is that we don't have being resources, we're even the recognition for the work that we do do. [SPEAKER_02]: So for example, [SPEAKER_02]: when I would

have my patients who needed an ultrasound for example and I'm in a big hospital institution and I have 15 minutes and after all of the check-in now I'm down to seven minutes to see my patient and I'm like you really meet this thing because that is really quality of care right I send them off they come back and you like they say you know Dr. Miller I got a $700 visit [SPEAKER_02]: So what happens the next time that you need to make a decision? [SPEAKER_02]: You roll the ultrasound in, you do it yourself, you put yourself behind, you don't get credit for it because you feel badly for the patient, but they have to have

this terrible experience. [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like we are more likely to sacrifice on that in that way than some of our male colleagues. [SPEAKER_02]: And I've seen it. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I've been in a system as an OB-GYN, where I've had male colleagues who've got had complications from their surgeries, and be like, I'm not on call. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think not a single person, one of us, if that was us that we would say, you deal with it, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like we would at least show up, call the patient, things like that, because of that, I want to even call it nurturing. [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't it just good medicine? [SPEAKER_02]: And how we were influenced to

maybe go into medicine with the promise that we can take care of people. [SPEAKER_02]: And now we have a system that basically makes it almost impossible to do so with all of the surprises, with the limited time points, let me get to patients and so at one point. [SPEAKER_02]: don't even bring up having to be caregivers, the family members, don't even care-givers of children, all of that stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: Then all of a sudden, we're supposed to still work without the support and the hospitals, we're also working with very, very little support on the outside. [SPEAKER_02]: At some point, the system breaks, and it's either you leave, or you adapt to kind of just release a

little bit of that pressure, or you become burnt out. [SPEAKER_02]: And when I think about it, women physicians have the highest suicide rates. [SPEAKER_02]: Right, like compared to the general population, like we are really, really, really suffering. [SPEAKER_02]: And so yes, we have all of these great outcomes and things like that, but even in some of these articles, they're like, women are great, and it's not like they push you into positions of power to make decisions to say, well, how can we model this so that we do have better outcomes across the board? [SPEAKER_02]: If you look at a lot of these like big, kind of, they're not positioned women leading, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: No,

we have lack of mission-driven work, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, we're numbers. [SPEAKER_00]: were passed over for those decision-making roles and girl there is still let's be honest there is a gender pay gap and so [SPEAKER_00]: Our empathy and our listening ability, I think is what helps us with our outcomes and the willingness to take the extra five minutes to ask the extra question or to really be very perceptive on maybe our patients body language or her discomfort or what's going on or you know giving her the extra space that she needs in that seven minute appointment [SPEAKER_00]: And we're not rewarded for that. [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I mean, you talk about, like I think

about I delivered a baby when I was on call. [SPEAKER_00]: And I know you've heard the story. [SPEAKER_00]: Because my male partner refused to come in. [SPEAKER_00]: So not only was he punitive to me as a female provider and my baby, but also think about that patient. [SPEAKER_00]: She deserved a provider that wasn't laboring in hell, distracted, and so he hurt. [SPEAKER_00]: three or four of us, like her maybe too potentially by that one selfish act. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I'm not on call. [SPEAKER_00]: You're on call. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, hmm, but I'm hospitalized and he's like, well, you're there anyways. [SPEAKER_00]: Could you imagine one of us doing that to each other? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, [SPEAKER_02]:

I could never, never, never, never, never, ever. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's behavior that is accepted. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's still happening. [SPEAKER_02]: There's like this big, this Dr. Iggy, big social media influencer who just walked away. [SPEAKER_02]: And there's this big conversation about, wait, you did all of that training you're walking away. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like the level of toxicity that you faced [SPEAKER_02]: a woman as a person of color in these very traditional spaces, it is daily, like to be it, no way would I believe that that partner of yours would have said that to any of his male colleagues. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's no way in how key would have said that to any of his

male colleagues, but he got away with it with me. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the I joke that the, um, [SPEAKER_00]: woman, it's not even a joke, but I say the woman I am today would never put up with me. [SPEAKER_00]: I was just so early in my career that I didn't know any better, and I always say that God love this, um, tartaners who came in, [SPEAKER_00]: And basically saved the day, she came in and made it very clear that I was patient. [SPEAKER_00]: She called him and said, I can call hospital attorneys or you can come and take the rest of her call because she's a patient and should not be delivering babies. [SPEAKER_00]:

And that's what it took to not even humble him, but to get him to do [SPEAKER_00]: the right thing, and so for me, I remember leaving traditional, well, first I gave up the OBE before I left, and then I went into, like, gee, I only ended that for a little bit, but when I left the obstetrics, let's talk about the shame, I basically was told by my obstetric colleagues that number one I was ruining their life because they had more calls to take, and number two that I had wasted a spot. [SPEAKER_02]: That's also the wasted spot accusation. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, they're like, you know how hard it is to get a spot. [SPEAKER_00]:

No, be you wasted a spot. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, but I'm still going to be delivering. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm still going to carry and carry and carry and and I have young children at home. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm like, [SPEAKER_00]: Why am I over-explaining a personal life decision, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I am deciding how I'm going to work, how I'm going to use my skill set, and the boundaries that I am drawing that I need for my family. [SPEAKER_00]: And I still heard you're wasting a spot. [SPEAKER_02]: It's so interesting, because I heard that as a medical student, and so for my friends, I'm the only one that went to medical school, all of my friends went

to law school. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's kind of a given that like, you might take a sabbatical, you might go from place to place exploring new opportunities and taking time for yourself. [SPEAKER_02]: And I would hear these comments like, yeah, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: Women, if that was usually as like women, you know, half of y'all don't even, you know, have full careers, it's kind of like taking a spot and this was especially for the surgical specialties, so for the general surgeries or orthopedic surgeries, the plastic surgeries, they would make these comments when I was on rotation, and it definitely wasn't a friendly place obviously to be because you're like, well, I don't want a choice here,

right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like if I leave, you're going to shame me, if I stay, I'm not good enough, it was wild. [SPEAKER_00]: it was wild. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and then you are then, you decide you don't fit in this traditional role, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And so, for me, for a while, I went into a GUI and only position, and even that didn't work for me because, and then, as I was talking to cancer patients, and, [SPEAKER_00]: and finding out about this sexual health care gap and then this menopause gap because we're talking more than a decade ago. [SPEAKER_00]: I finally, I took a business plan to this hospital systems and they were like, they're there dear. [SPEAKER_00]: Like,

this will never work, and so... That's how I started her MD and have now sold it. [SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing that's interesting to me is now you're an entrepreneur as well. [SPEAKER_00]: is that women are building like crazy in their 40s and 50s, and you and I both know some of the neurotransmitter and hormonal shifts that are occurring, but why do you, well, first of all, how young are you, Dr. Miller? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm 45 years young. [SPEAKER_00]: Your point of view, John. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so we fit that statistic that they are talking about that, you know, and this is where I want it to be this beacon of hope of, you know, you're 45

to 55 and women are starting to think, oh, my, my reproductive ears are over, like it's the end of my career, it's the end of my, you know, or you're having those word finding issues and you think your career is over, but 45 to 55 is like the sweet spot where we're creative and [SPEAKER_00]: Tell me about like you you're doing this right now. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to just listen Yeah, sorry here's a girl practice Yeah, and [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think this is happening at this, at this induction point? [SPEAKER_02]: I will say the pandemic had a huge influence on me, not just because like you saw almost like the Emperor has no

close, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like we were in these hospital systems and for me, someone who, you know, I'm a nerd, I'm like Yale Harvard grad, I love data, I love the academic space, [SPEAKER_02]: and then all of a sudden the pandemic hit and you're working right like you felt like you were a part of something I remember going in and I was doing Q3 Q2 or Q3 call in the hospital at night so that I could do home school with my kids and I felt like I was a part of something like we were all going in on all the PPE and caring for patients. [SPEAKER_02]: And then it was like, you got to get back

to work. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, my kids are still out of, we don't care. [SPEAKER_02]: You got to figure it out. [SPEAKER_02]: And then it was, oh, and the hospital is not doing well. [SPEAKER_02]: It's everybody across sports getting a 10% pay cut. [SPEAKER_02]: But like we're all, sorry. [SPEAKER_02]: That's not, that's just what it is. [SPEAKER_02]: And oh, and, and oh, and we need to see more patients. [SPEAKER_02]: And oh, and the little two-hour administrative time that you had, that's going away. [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember just being very disillusioned. [SPEAKER_02]: I remember feeling like, but wait, like, aren't we all in this together, and we borrowed? [SPEAKER_02]: It was very much like a system, a UAA

worker in a cog in that system. [SPEAKER_02]: I think for the first time, I realized it then, and it just so happened that I was now in my early 40s, and what else happened at kids? [SPEAKER_02]: and I was watching my daughter grow up watching me feel mute. [SPEAKER_02]: You know that game when you're kid and you take the adjective that like an literally adjective, right? [SPEAKER_02]: My name is Tenequa. [SPEAKER_02]: I was always talking to Tenequa. [SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell? [SPEAKER_02]: I was always talking to Tenequa and I felt so muted. [SPEAKER_02]: I felt so mute in the system as I was also getting involved more with DEI work and really that was like

shining a light and it was very performative. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it was very clear to me, it was very performative and I felt mute. [SPEAKER_02]: And I felt mute as I was trying to say, I really wanted to develop a mental post-profits here. [SPEAKER_02]: We could be a midlife care center in the Southeast and it was like, that's not part of our, but head on the head, that's great but that's not part of our five year strategic plan. [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, go back to delivering babies. [SPEAKER_02]: It was fine, but it was also my passion was out for a second, not very muted. [SPEAKER_02]: And at some point, what I want my daughter to live

this, I was becoming undone, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I was burning out my husband's side, my children's side, and it occurred to me. [SPEAKER_02]: I probably have more years behind me been in front of me. [SPEAKER_02]: How do I want to show up the next 10, 20, 30 years? [SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is me kind of speaking this in hindsight. [SPEAKER_02]: For during that time, it was like, I cannot do this anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: I am somebody who needed to express and be created and I felt so uncreative and I felt so muted. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think God for a colleague while I was having all the chest pain in my anxiety was through the room because of

all of these things. [SPEAKER_02]: It was like, I think you need to take some time off. [SPEAKER_02]: and I took four weeks off and I was feeling so ashamed of my brain because I'm a nerd. [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to read all the books about burnout and how to fix myself. [SPEAKER_02]: And finally, somebody said, actually, you need to dissid. [SPEAKER_02]: And you need to understand how you've got here. [SPEAKER_02]: And what's going to change when you do go back to work? [SPEAKER_02]: And it occurred to me that this was just no longer serving me. [SPEAKER_02]: And so that said into motion, well, what is the plan of the plan? [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't to leave the

plan is just you try to pivot and kind of find my a different lane and things just kept happening like you said the universe. [SPEAKER_02]: That was just like, yeah, you're not welcome here anymore, friend. [SPEAKER_02]: And it was the biggest gift and it also helped that like being in my forties, you just have a little bit more experience. [SPEAKER_02]: I always say I like my 20 year old self. [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be here anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: This version is so much better. [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, so we both have talked about being minority women, minority doctors, and so I have never really covered this with another guest, even though, you know, we both specialize in menopause

and men life, but can we talk about how hormonal transitions, [SPEAKER_00]: statistically hit my nor any women, particularly black women differently, whether it's and I want to talk about symptoms, I want you to talk about age and I want you to talk about access to care and what you're seeing. [SPEAKER_02]: absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think you know the big study, the Swan study gives us a lot of information. [SPEAKER_02]: This is not something that I feel like is made up. [SPEAKER_02]: It's supported by data. [SPEAKER_02]: And so if we say that in the United States, the average age of menopause is about 51, it's a year earlier for black women. [SPEAKER_02]: And the reason

why that matters is that we know the increased cardiovascular risks that go up as estrogen levels decline. [SPEAKER_02]: And so we're already experiencing an earlier metopause, which means that our risk factors with development of athletic disease goes up sooner than our other cohorts. [SPEAKER_02]: The other piece, too, is that the type of symptoms that we generally see, and there are all of the theories of why that is, namely, weathering what it feels like to be under chronic stress from whether that's financial or racial disparities within the nation. [SPEAKER_02]: that we start seeing more intense hot flushes, night sweats and just the impact that that has on the cardiovascular system. [SPEAKER_02]: There are wonderful cardiologists who

are in this space like a Dr. Jane Morgan who talks about it. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's not just having the hot flushes is the intensity of your symptoms and the duration which tends to be longer. [SPEAKER_02]: We say fair amount of pause average four years when [SPEAKER_02]: The black one and we know that it could be as much as 10 plus years, and it's the intensity of those symptoms that actually can be its own risk factor for your cardiovascular outcomes. [SPEAKER_02]: And so in my practice, you do the same. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I generally am like, we need to like do a deeper dive on these cardiovascular risk factors, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I've had patients, black women

who come into my practice who have already preexisting risk factors like hypertension. [SPEAKER_02]: hyperlipidemia, their cholesterol, you know, maybe it's well controlled, but they're still on these medications, and then they're like, you know, I asked my doctor to do a POP or to do a lipoprotein A, and then like we don't do that, and I'm like, it's a blood test, y'all, it's a blood test. [SPEAKER_02]: If you draw on bloods for your, you know, your CBC and your CMP, like, just add it on, and it's just like, I don't think that people really want to do the work to be honest with you, but it matters. [SPEAKER_02]: Why does it matter? [SPEAKER_02]: Because it would

literally change your [SPEAKER_02]: outcomes in your management. [SPEAKER_02]: So the one patient that I'm thinking about, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and obesity, doing well in terms of medication management, exercise, and things like that, life or protein A, do the roof. [SPEAKER_02]: Her goals for her treatment change. [SPEAKER_02]: Right? [SPEAKER_02]: And we know that they can have some discernible impact on her outcomes long-term as it relates to cardiac disease and heart health. [SPEAKER_02]: And so one of the big things that my practice is really focusing on that cardiovascular metabolic aspect. [SPEAKER_02]: And always laugh, I'm like, I'm a kind of college, kind of college is why I'm opera scrubbing the diabetes medications, the glyph, but it's because you

don't really have systems that really understand the impact. [SPEAKER_02]: that it means, especially in this mental puzzle transition, and what it means to live, like you have that experience with your mom, like nobody took a hit. [SPEAKER_02]: No! [SPEAKER_02]: That this was something that was a possibility for her. [SPEAKER_02]: Not a hit. [SPEAKER_00]: No, and then we shall must die at 45. [SPEAKER_00]: And, oh, the other thing that we didn't talk about as being physicians, is that, you know, we know that women live longer, but they live in poor health. [SPEAKER_00]: And female physicians, you were talking about suicide earlier, we don't live long. [SPEAKER_00]: Even when you take out that suicide data, and it's

because of that chronic stress that burden, but I think the reason you and I pay so close attention to cardiovascular disease is I think feeling cancers get so much attention, but you and I both know this, that cardiovascular disease still remains the number one killer of women. [SPEAKER_00]: And me personally, who's mother almost died, and we have a very strong family history. [SPEAKER_00]: I have numerous, uh, first-degree relatives, women who died under the age of 50, sudden cardiac death, like no warning. [SPEAKER_00]: I went to numerous cardiologists who said, well, nothing's happened yet. [SPEAKER_00]: We cannot do anything for you. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I had someone to a stress test. [SPEAKER_00]: I had an, uh,

because I was having test pain. [SPEAKER_00]: But I only got an apple. [SPEAKER_00]: I finally went to a new preventative cardiology service that just came about in Cincinnati for women, and now in addition to the corner calcium score that I get, um, there is now a vascular screen, that, you know, checks your vessels, that checks everything because she was like, you can get plaque, your heart, but you can get it everywhere else in your body. [SPEAKER_00]: And do you know what that out of pocket cost is? [SPEAKER_00]: I was so mad that I was not offered this before, 75 dollars and it's HSA FSA available. [SPEAKER_00]: So, are eligible. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh, you less

than what most women will pay for a manny or a penny, or they're naralsami, other nails, or a haircut and a blowout, you know this, and then so when people tell me, yes, they're I wish. [SPEAKER_00]: And you and I both wish that it was covered, but it's not, and you are worth that $75. [SPEAKER_00]: When I was like, they were like, oh, they were apologize. [SPEAKER_00]: And they were sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're eligible for this, but insurance won't cover it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, how much is it? [SPEAKER_00]: They were like $75. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I had to tow basketball and screening is $75. [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, yes, but the good

news is, God forbid, if the screen is abnormal, then we can order the test and insurance will cover it. [SPEAKER_00]: You know? [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Why do more people not know about this and why am I 50 years old? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm five years older than my mother's first event has no one ever offered this to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I was right. [SPEAKER_02]: With such a significant family history. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know, I think that there's so much that's lost in translation in our visits because they are these very short visits. [SPEAKER_02]: You're just trying to get through the day. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I remember practicing and seeing 25 patients in a day. [SPEAKER_02]: And

as kind of colleges, we do a lot in our visits, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, our patients get dressed, they get undressed, they eat all of the things. [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember like if a patient is going to show up, we were like, oh, we have a 15 minutes back. [SPEAKER_02]: Let me try to catch up on our notes or the 100 messages that we have in our box. [SPEAKER_02]: So whatever it is, and I really think that like sometimes we're so laser-focused that we really can't see the forest and really put pieces together and say, actually, you have this really significant family history. [SPEAKER_02]: You're having these symptoms or you develop this thing. [SPEAKER_02]: It makes

sense that maybe your cholesterol is changing as you're in the perimenopause and beyond. [SPEAKER_02]: No one's talking about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have a conversation about what is all available, what's new, how we use it in clinical practice, but that takes time. [SPEAKER_00]: It takes time and I think it takes, like you and I both have suffered, you brought it up and to me, I didn't even realize that I was burned out until I had a co-founder send me the symptoms of burnout. [SPEAKER_00]: and I actually had the most severe level of burnout, but I think as doctors, they just keep throwing, oh, like you have to do charts, you have to do the orders, you

have to see the patient, you you know, you have to stop the bleeding, you have to like you do this extra surgery, you're a mom, you're a wife, you're you know, you're taking care of your parents and your patients and then [SPEAKER_00]: You just keep saying, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And my coach taught me something so smart. [SPEAKER_00]: As a doctor, it was so humbling. [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, if you do not take care of yourself, your body will do it for you. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it will give you something will happen. [SPEAKER_00]: It will shut down. [SPEAKER_00]: Completely shut down. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what happened to me. [SPEAKER_00]: And I found myself in the midst of building this Women's

healthcare empire and Struggling with Matt the worst healthcare of my own [SPEAKER_00]: life. [SPEAKER_00]: I was gaining weight. [SPEAKER_00]: I was having bouts of aphasia or problems speaking. [SPEAKER_00]: My blood pressure was out of control. [SPEAKER_00]: I weighed what I weighed nine months pregnant. [SPEAKER_00]: I was drinking more than socially. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, let me just have a glass of wine every night. [SPEAKER_00]: I was sleeping horribly. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, what am I doing? [SPEAKER_00]: What am I doing? [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I have to be of service to myself. [SPEAKER_00]: And as women, I don't know why for me at first, it felt selfish. [SPEAKER_00]: The simple act of

taking care of myself felt selfish. [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I had to always be in service to others. [SPEAKER_00]: And so do you want to talk about that burden that we alluded to earlier of being that position and always in being of service to others? [SPEAKER_00]: And then kind of letting things go ourselves. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, I will say that going back to my training and especially being in like an OBGYN specialty where you have the vast majority now of the residents coming in are in fact women, what we would hear is that if I remember being pregnant my chief year, I thought I put it a good number of time and hearing my

tending say things like she has to go to the bathroom again, although it was a five hour case and I was about eight months pregnant, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I would intentionally dehydrate myself. [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't drink anything if I knew we had these big oncology cases because I didn't want to have to go to the bathroom at eight months' pregnant. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a lot of shaming, especially around women and how we feel like we [SPEAKER_02]: to need to take care of ourselves and our male colleagues they just don't have that and I didn't hear that language around them either and so it was just one of those things that you just kind of put your

head down and you did it and I remember hearing people say being an attending is so much better than being a resident. [SPEAKER_02]: and then you get to being an attending, and it feels about the same. [SPEAKER_02]: And so when I would talk to my, and maybe it made a little bit more money, but it felt the same in terms of like the mental work that you were doing, and then all of the additional responsibilities, and so you think it's normal. [SPEAKER_02]: you just think it's normal that this is like there's only two settings stop and go right like there's nothing in the middle and you think it's normal and no one's there to tell

you otherwise it's usually my friends those same lawyer friends who was just like no like you haven't slept like you don't you don't get raster you're not post call like tell [SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't make sense to me. [SPEAKER_02]: How is that legal? [SPEAKER_02]: None of them would be like, it's just what it is. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think for me, you kind of are running in this. [SPEAKER_02]: There's very much a hierarchy as well in medicine. [SPEAKER_02]: It's very traditional. [SPEAKER_02]: And so when you speak up, you can get sideline very quickly. [SPEAKER_02]: And in a place where I was in academics, like if you were not agreeable, [SPEAKER_02]: you don't have opportunities. [SPEAKER_02]: And

so that part that mute feeling that I couldn't express myself and really push back where I felt like my boundaries were being crossed, really, and it's something that's not aware of it, right? [SPEAKER_02]: We're aware that somebody's taking advantage of us or we're aware that this is not right, but you can't say anything. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't do anything because [SPEAKER_02]: your career could be on the line, your livelihood could be on the line. [SPEAKER_02]: I remember I had a coach literally telling me that I needed to say something to my chair. [SPEAKER_02]: I literally was in tears. [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I cannot say that thing. [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, well, what's the worst case

scenario? [SPEAKER_02]: It was the best question that I think anyone in my life had asked me up until that point. [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, what is your worst case scenario? [SPEAKER_02]: And my worst case scenario is that I would be fired and disgraced. [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, do you still have a girlfriend from your head? [SPEAKER_02]: Do you still have family that loves you? [SPEAKER_02]: Do you not have the skill set of an OBGYN that you can go out and get another job? [SPEAKER_02]: And I [SPEAKER_02]: I said, you're right, but sometimes we get into that kind of lighter flight as residents or as attending. [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we really operate in that survival

fighter flight. [SPEAKER_02]: It's so it's really hard, unless you have someone like a coach coming in and challenging those thoughts. [SPEAKER_02]: to really develop new ones, that no, I don't need to be treated like this. [SPEAKER_02]: No, there are other opportunities, like yes, I cannot 45 open up a medical practice, even though most days it feels crazy, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Those are the things that I think, especially at this big old age of ours, right, that we are now finally saying no more. [SPEAKER_02]: When I think he shows up now, because at least for me, it's like I'm looking at my kids, and it's like, I want it better for them, where they don't feel that

pressure. [SPEAKER_02]: And to almost like exemplify that for them, that they can look as they bomb pivot it. [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay to do that. [SPEAKER_00]: I think they say to our emotional regulation improves after a period of pause or empathy centers increase, but then also our nurturing in a good way. [SPEAKER_00]: Like where we're set to nurture nurture nurture. [SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden, those neurotransmitters are quieting and we can kind of be set fit. [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll go back into that's why all of a sudden we're starting businesses and we're doing the thing, we're finally chasing the things we want to chase. [SPEAKER_00]: But the one thing that I want to go back to

that you said and you've said it a couple of times and I think it's prolific and profound because you said that you felt mute and I often refer to it visible patients. [SPEAKER_00]: So you and I are putting a position where we have to diagnose, treat, educate, advocate for our patients who are women because we are in the GUI ends and in a system [SPEAKER_00]: where we are made to feel invisible ourselves. [SPEAKER_00]: Just I've goose bumps. [SPEAKER_00]: Just think about that for a second. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're not eating our healers. [SPEAKER_00]: I say that. [SPEAKER_00]: We're burning them out. [SPEAKER_00]: Literally, you and I both burned out. [SPEAKER_00]: And we are to advocate for

and step up for and be the voice for. [SPEAKER_00]: You described yourself as feeling muted. [SPEAKER_00]: yet your patients are expecting you to be their voice. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's where I want to take a moment to all those doctors and women who are struggling is taking care of yourself is actually not selfish. [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually the best thing [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's an unnegotiable. [SPEAKER_00]: It's in that is one of my so with my coach, I did never against. [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, it was like, I will never rise my health ever again ever again. [SPEAKER_00]: It is why I don't even think a car has to be, it's not, because I would always be

the girl who's like a year and a half late for her screening tests, like talking to patients all day long about getting in for their screening tests. [SPEAKER_00]: And so for me, I think that's the non-negotiable. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we're going to switch to something later because we've known each other for a while and love the hell out of you, but the one thing we both learned early on is that we're both drawn to the [SPEAKER_00]: We're both beach girls. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And so for me, instantaneously, the beach feels like healing, it feels like home, what do you think that this does for us for our nervous system, or our regulation, or why

are you and I as OBGYNs so drawn? [SPEAKER_02]: So connected to the water, you know, I worked with a coach and she, you know, I specifically work with her around stress, like how can I mitigate my stress? [SPEAKER_02]: She was a health coach and she introduced this concept to me called stress angers. [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, we are human beings that live in the world through our senses, you know, sight, touch, taste, all of those things. [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, I want you to go and I want you to think about something that you smell, [SPEAKER_02]: and how it helps you relax, how it helps you say calm, and I immediately went to the water.

[SPEAKER_02]: the sound of the waves, the smell of the sea, like kind of those like indicators, and associating it with these really happy fond memories of just sitting on the beach relaxing, listening to music, or watching my kids run, or being in the water myself, feeling the water, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Especially that golf coast water, August, it feels like that water, like you sit on the edge, and it's just that memory. [SPEAKER_02]: Literally, I will even play it. [SPEAKER_02]: I have like seesaw candles and I also like play like beach waves when I am feeling particularly because it anchors me. [SPEAKER_02]: It sends a message to my nervous system through my senses that we are safe

and if we are back at a place that brings us a lot of joy. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it is a practice that I actually talk to my patients with when I'm also seeing them and then also coaching them of like how can we anchor ourselves in our senses. [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of us, the phone, like that's the only [SPEAKER_02]: sense that I feel like we use is like we're looking at all of this terrible stuff on the phone or we're listening to like people we're not anchoring ourselves and the things that make us feel good. [SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't have to be the beach, it's the beach for us, but it's like what are the

other things? [SPEAKER_02]: I've had people tell me it's like the sound of a crackling fire, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm from New York, sometimes people like to hear it some way go by, right? [SPEAKER_02]: It reminds them of home. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like okay, those are the things that we can anchor ourselves and it feels easy. [SPEAKER_02]: and it's free, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't always have to be at the beach, but when I like that candle and when I listen to my, I'm like, Alexa, play beach sals, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it triggers for me that calm, that safety, and it just lets me know that I'm grounded. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a little bit of a ritual, which

I love the idea of bringing rituals back, especially when you're going through parry menopause and menopause, because like you said, we're constantly feeding into other people, [SPEAKER_02]: But if we could just take one ritual, whether that is in this moment listening to the beach waves, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Giving the prompt to do that. [SPEAKER_02]: Or, and my practice, my friend, who's a pharmacist, she made like a custom oil blend. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, okay, I'm feeling really stressed. [SPEAKER_02]: Let me take this oil blend. [SPEAKER_02]: Let me rev it on my temples. [SPEAKER_02]: That's my ritual, that's my reminder. [SPEAKER_02]: Let me be present in this moment. [SPEAKER_02]: And even just those small things back in your

day, it's like to me so satisfying. [SPEAKER_02]: And so the beach has been, I mean, my family's also Caribbean. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that's also a big part of it. [SPEAKER_02]: Even though I didn't grow up there, like the beach, my mom used to say, you cannot go to a beach and not dip yourself in the water, right? [SPEAKER_02]: It's like that kind of refreshing, purifying thing. [SPEAKER_02]: And so for me, the beach anchors me in that way. [SPEAKER_00]: My favorite days are days that I've had a swim in the ocean. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I love swimming in salt water. [SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, Darlinsey Harper, who you are all so friends with. [SPEAKER_00]:

Yeah, she loves the ocean. [SPEAKER_00]: And we were talking one time about being founders. [SPEAKER_00]: And this was early on. [SPEAKER_00]: And she had gotten some great advice from her coach who had told her, because they asked where you leastressed, where do you feel, and she's like on the boat, like surrounded by water? [SPEAKER_00]: And I love what her coach told her. [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, you need to find both moments every single day. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what you're talking about with the candles or, you know, with the ascended oils is, you know, if you go to a conference and you don't want to stay at the conference hotel because it stresses you out

to be, you know, a bunch of your done presenting, being around all those people, ghost tastes somewhere else, or, you know, go out. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe don't go to the industry dinners at night or, you know, maybe book yourself a massage and don't go to every single session like find boat moments so that you don't burn out, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's why we're so drawn to that because it kind of like brings down the noise and the constant like boat moments, that's what we're going to do. [SPEAKER_00]: So now I'm going to take you right from a boat moment into a lightning round. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, because

I've really wanted to know the fantastic Dr. Miller. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, last book you read. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, don't make me tell you. [SPEAKER_00]: No, don't make me. [SPEAKER_02]: So my secret obsession is romance novels. [SPEAKER_02]: So I just finished, I just finished, get a hint, Danny. [SPEAKER_02]: It's by this British author. [SPEAKER_02]: So I have like Loki, love for like British culture. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I like to get British romance novels because of the little quirky language, the little, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: local bomb, they say things like bomb and things like that. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the last book I read. [SPEAKER_00]: I just read a Kristen Hanna novel. [SPEAKER_00]: Ellen Hildebrandt is usually my

guilty pleasure on the beach and Carly for, so I usually love beach romance novels as well because it's just, it's just, it's easy and it's not reading papers. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you're one must have to travel with. [SPEAKER_02]: My one must have, I mean, I'm a black girl. [SPEAKER_02]: It's my fat and bonnet. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: I have a funny thing. [SPEAKER_02]: It's in its leopard print, either way. [SPEAKER_02]: It's leopard print. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh God. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: I have a leopard print set in on it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I can see you rocking that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I go get coffee in it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's real cute. [SPEAKER_00]: I

can tell you the thing I won't travel with anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: So you know, as a speaker, a lot of times, particularly in sexual health, I get all the goodies, like the lubricants and the moisturis. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I get the vibrators and I was traveling with my- Did he go off on your suitcase? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Through TSA. [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, I, my friend is... [SPEAKER_00]: I think your laptop is buzzing, and the TSA agent is like, it's not her laptop. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, that's it, I'm not traveling like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Because when they literally I'll take them out of the bag and they're like, do you want it? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want

it? [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, why I'm like, because I'm flying back to Ohio, and I am not going through TSA with, with, you know, that is my must, I love you all. [SPEAKER_00]: I love the vibranic companies I work for, but I will not get on a plane with all of you. [SPEAKER_00]: So yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And then speaking, I'm like, what is on your nightstand right now? [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay, all my nightstand is I have one of those, those alarm clocks that wake you up like a sun. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I know. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's supposed to like wake you up really gently, so not like in a alarm. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it

kind of like starts like mimicking a sunrise. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I have that. [SPEAKER_02]: And then I also have this product from Laura. [SPEAKER_02]: It is a CBD based intimacy oil. [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: See, all these kinds of things. [SPEAKER_00]: It's lovely. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's coconut oil baseless, also all over finally. [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. [SPEAKER_00]: Next country that you want to visit. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: I really want to go back to the UK. [SPEAKER_02]: We went to Ireland and had probably one of the best vacations we've ever had. [SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of want to explore those areas again, not necessarily going back to Ireland, but visiting another area

like Scotland or something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: I have never been to Ireland ever. [SPEAKER_02]: We are going, it is all five. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everyone keeps saying that. [SPEAKER_00]: I need to check it out. [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely have decided this year much more travel for fun. [SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the things I love to do anyways. [SPEAKER_00]: And less for work. [SPEAKER_00]: So more traveling for fun and less for work. [SPEAKER_00]: So I [SPEAKER_00]: I want to go to Australia next. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when that's going to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot of kids graduating next year, so maybe we'll do it as a double or triple graduation trip and like family

trip. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is because of the seasons, you know, you have to go at Christmas and then we'll flip that. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't take them in summer. [SPEAKER_00]: We can, but then it's cold. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like, it's cold. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And being married to a cancer doctor, trying to get him to get two or three weeks off [SPEAKER_00]: That part because you definitely need the time and the car frame because the trouble I mean last year the trip to Saudi Arabia I did it in five days and it about I showed every year of my 49 years of that [SPEAKER_00]: I was walk the girl and I tell you

I was walking around in a fog my husband is like what is wrong with you? [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I feel like I was delivering babies for a second. [SPEAKER_00]: It's straight. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's right. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And there was no drinking on the trip because Saudi is completely dry. [SPEAKER_00]: So like I was drinking or staying up late. [SPEAKER_00]: I just the time. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it was just the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that great? [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I felt, I have never felt older than I did after that trip. [SPEAKER_00]: Best parenting advice you have ever received. [SPEAKER_02]: Say sorry a lot. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so you're human and one of the

things when I was growing up and I was disciplines and even if it was not the right approach, you know, our generation, we really didn't get our parents didn't say sorry to us in that same way. [SPEAKER_02]: And so now as I show up as a parent, there are things that I actually, if I'm having a day or would have you and I'm interacting with my kids. [SPEAKER_02]: And I even know, like, maybe this wasn't the greatest approach. [SPEAKER_02]: I now just apologize to the book, you know what? [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't handle that, well, and I'm really sorry about that. [SPEAKER_02]: And I will say, it becomes like a nothing burger for my kids, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, because kids are really self-centered, and yes, they are. [SPEAKER_02]: But also in a way that mom, something mom is not. [SPEAKER_02]: talking to me the right like something must be wrong with me and I never want my kids to walk around feeling like something's wrong with them or they did something less than or they don't have unconditional love for me. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so showing up and just being like I apologize and then also it kind of heals a little bit of that inner child and me right like I get a little bit of that like um yeah for those moments like I'm also sorry uh and so yeah say sorry often. [SPEAKER_00]: I

know I went prom dress shopping yesterday and we found a dress on the first day for the youngest and I found myself apologizing a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, can I post the picture? [SPEAKER_00]: No! [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want everyone to see my dress, I'm like, never mind. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry! [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, it's so cute! [SPEAKER_00]: First, oh my god, I've got a good one for this one. [SPEAKER_00]: Worst parenting fail. [SPEAKER_00]: Which one? [SPEAKER_00]: Um... [SPEAKER_02]: For me, it's like being so information overloaded, I can't think of a particular thing, but like forgetting my kid, like literally just forgetting the kid was somewhere. [SPEAKER_02]: I have three kids, and I remember going home

and getting there, and it was after a long day, and literally settling in, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like getting ready for dinner, and one of the other kids said, where's the one? [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, I forgot to pick him up, and it was my turn to pick him up. [SPEAKER_02]: My husband was not there. [SPEAKER_02]: I just forgot about him. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I can see that happening. [SPEAKER_00]: I did that with one of the babies. [SPEAKER_00]: It was either Maya or Alayla and we brought them all in from the car and then same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: We had dogs, puppies, everyone's running around. [SPEAKER_00]: And then my husband's like, I think it was where is

Maya. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, and then I knew I had left her in the car, but we just left her in the mud room and the little thing and she's just sleeping and I was like, oh my God. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, oops, but no, I actually missed a first day of school and I actually put on video because I hated all the calendars, okay, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And so to my go by my written ones still to the stay. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I do have a Google calendar, but then I still like my box, my Bible, whatever you want to call it is the one that I write down. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I wrote

it down and that was gonna be the first day of school, okay? [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm videotaping the kids getting off the bus and I'm like, how was the first day of school when I took a half day so I could be there? [SPEAKER_00]: And all I hear is, it was the second day of the school when the school was off and I was like, my husband is like, I don't understand. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you are a surgeon. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna have to shoot me this. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, love, Phil, I'm like, I'm human. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's just, we laugh about it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you're alive. [SPEAKER_01]: Like most days, that's what we're

doing. [SPEAKER_01]: We're keeping these tiny people alive. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you're not good moral people, you're alive. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yes, I felt horrible. [SPEAKER_00]: I felt horrible, and my girlfriend's laughed about it for about a month. [SPEAKER_00]: And as did my husband say, yeah, are we done? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, are we done with this now? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad you all have had so much fun about this. [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, all right, so my friend, I feel like I could talk to you forever, but I want everyone to know where they can keep up with you, where they can find you, like tell me everything that is going on. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I am the founder

of Revival Woman's Health. [SPEAKER_02]: It is a concertage, midlife care practice for women here in the Metro Atlanta area, located in downtown Decatur. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a membership-based practice, really providing not just like Metapausal health, sexual health and cardiovascular metabolic health, but office kind of collegey all under one roof. [SPEAKER_02]: It's so proud of the work that we get to do. [SPEAKER_02]: We get to talk about your hormones but then also put your IUDs in. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's been amazing to bring those two worlds and those two passions of mine together. [SPEAKER_02]: On socials, it's Tynical Miller MD. [SPEAKER_02]: That's on my LinkedIn and on my Instagram and all the things. [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah,

I've just been really enjoying where this is. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's hard work, but it's leading into that creator space. [SPEAKER_02]: And it feels like this is exactly what I've supposed to be doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think to the women listening, whether you are a provider, a healthcare worker, or someone whose life is just in transition, due to hormonal changes, or you just aren't happy, I would say that the future of healthcare or the career force is not going to be built by us staying inside of broken systems. [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be built by courageous people willing to create something, to build something more beautiful, [SPEAKER_00]: equitable and more life-giving. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, thank you

for being a disruptor along with me, girl. [SPEAKER_00]: So, hey! [SPEAKER_00]: This is more than a conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a call, a call to build something better. [SPEAKER_00]: Subscribe, share, and bring more disruptors into this room. [SPEAKER_00]: For unfiltered insights and bold ideas, go to DrSomeet.com to sign up for the monthly disruptor newsletter and follow us on social at DrSomeet. [SPEAKER_00]: We're not waiting for a seat at the table. [SPEAKER_00]: We're building our own table.