The Real Reason Women Get Worse Healthcare (And How To Fit It Now) w/ Priya Bathija

[SPEAKER_01]: Navigating the healthcare system is like playing a game, except you don't really know the rules, the instructions are written in a language you don't speak, and the stakes are your life. [SPEAKER_00]: Greya Batija is the CEO of New Health focused on closing care gaps in women's health care by building solutions that work across providers and health systems, scaling innovation in women's health. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not on the patient to trust us. [SPEAKER_01]: It's on healthcare systems to be trustworthy. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's the little things. [SPEAKER_00]: How do you balance building trust without slowing innovation to a complete crawl? [SPEAKER_01]: We have this notion that innovation has to be fast. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be

fast. [SPEAKER_01]: Innovation in healthcare takes time and it should take time. [SPEAKER_00]: Shortage is expected in women's health. [SPEAKER_00]: We do not want to lose these women in the workplace, so what are some of these solutions? [SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of things that can be evaluated when we look at benefit design. [SPEAKER_00]: So... Alright, Priya, you are amazing as always. [SPEAKER_01]: say wait so you've done with this to say that so me. [SPEAKER_00]: Why do I feel like we need to be having this discussion over cocktails rather than via Zoom? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm right. [SPEAKER_00]: All right I'm going to jump right into it. [SPEAKER_00]: What's the throughline of your career that led you to

new? [SPEAKER_01]: It's a commitment to helping people live healthier lives and making the healthcare system work better for everyone. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was able to do that as a healthcare attorney for hospitals and health systems. [SPEAKER_01]: I did that at the federal level through policy and advocacy around hospital payment at the American Hospital Association. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I got the chance to build out AHA's efforts to help hospitals improve value affordability and help equity. [SPEAKER_01]: And since leaving the AHA, I've been able to do that in the women's health space. [SPEAKER_01]: And I know we're going to talk about that more today. [SPEAKER_00]: So describe what new health is and just one sentence. [SPEAKER_01]: So

we help healthcare organizations prioritize women's health so that they can unlock better care for everyone. [SPEAKER_00]: Who do you serve and what problem are you solving that hasn't been solved well up until now? [SPEAKER_01]: So we partner with healthcare organizations, specifically hospitals and health systems, to advance women's health. [SPEAKER_01]: And what we do is assess their strengths, uncover gaps, and then work with the existing teams and resources they have to create a strategy that fits their organization and the patients and communities that they serve. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is really important because hospitals have not historically addressed women's health over the course of their entire lives. [SPEAKER_01]: We are able to come in and say, women's

health is more than maturity care. [SPEAKER_01]: Here are places that you can build and grow your service lines to better meet the needs of women. [SPEAKER_00]: I remember a particular conversation I had with a hospital system, and we were trying to get them to lock on to Perry Menopause, Manopause Care, and Sexual Health, and it was almost an all-women team, and they were like, Dr. Jvade, we hear you, we've seen it, but can we just be really honest with you financially, and of strict patient, even though it's a drop in the bucket, right, our fertile period when you look at a woman's lifespan? [SPEAKER_00]: They were like it's two admissions for us versus one and

so we're just going to be honest about it So we would love to serve these women, but we'll allow companies like yours to serve them and we just can't do it at this time So what in telling you that and what you're doing kudos to you, but what what does success look like when you come into an organization and you work with them? [SPEAKER_00]: What does success look like? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's a great question. [SPEAKER_01]: And before I answer that, I want to sort of touch on what you just said, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So there have been two major themes that have come up in my work with hospitals on women's health.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the first is that hospitals have typically focused on maternity care. [SPEAKER_01]: And as you and I know, women's health is far more than that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's primary care specialty care. [SPEAKER_01]: It's conditions that impact [SPEAKER_01]: Women only women mostly impact women and that impact women differently and I think hospitals have a really important role in improving access outcomes and patient experiences in all of those areas and for all of those conditions. [SPEAKER_01]: But in addition to that, they have a power to connect the dots for women across their entire lives. [SPEAKER_01]: They are uniquely positioned to connect conditioned specialists and care delivery. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the second theme is this belief that if

a hospital is going to address women's health, they need to do it in a big way. [SPEAKER_01]: they need to invest in a comprehensive women's health center or a women's hospital that meets women's needs across their lives. [SPEAKER_01]: And if they can't go big, there isn't really anything for them to do. [SPEAKER_01]: And going big is really great, but it's not realistic. [SPEAKER_01]: It's expensive, it's time sensitive, it may not be what the hospital's patients actually need or want. [SPEAKER_01]: However, that doesn't mean there isn't work to be done. [SPEAKER_01]: So at new health, we've designed a framework that includes 30 strategies that hospitals can take to improve care for women, and they're divided into

four categories. [SPEAKER_01]: Redesigning care delivery, advancing equity and inclusion, investing in women and building trust. [SPEAKER_01]: And the strategies range from everything like, [SPEAKER_01]: asking patients what they want and actually listening to them, which is something we don't always do so well in our health care system. [SPEAKER_01]: To things like providing education on health conditions, investing in research or designing health care benefits that support women in the workforce. [SPEAKER_01]: So with those two themes sort of at play and going back to your question, in the work that we do successes two things, right? [SPEAKER_01]: First, it's inspiring hospitals to think differently, to understand the role they play in women's health. [SPEAKER_01]: to rethink the return

on investment and how they're capturing the benefit of these services outside of the standard way of doing business in the past. [SPEAKER_01]: And then second, being able to help hospital leaders assess what they're doing, what resources are available, what needs need to be met, and then helping them navigate to solutions that align with that assessment. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I believe very strongly that every organization can take a step forward in this work, and we, we at New Health are successful when we can help them do that. [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't agree with you more because you know I started with an integrated model of both brick and mortar and telehealth, but even outside of that, I relied

on a hospital system because when I needed to do a hysterectomy, when my patient needed a CT or an MRI, or when I needed a urologist or an orthopedist or a neurologist, I relied on [SPEAKER_00]: My hospital system, as did my patient for all of those services, particularly what they wanted to use their insurance. [SPEAKER_00]: So I love that you are fixing so many of the care gaps you talked about education, you talk about inclusivity, you talk about access and really structuring something. [SPEAKER_00]: for the healthcare system so they can enlistening. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, that is a never-one thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Women feel invisible and they don't feel heard by science, by data, by providers,

by lack of education. [SPEAKER_00]: So by filling that cap and just [SPEAKER_00]: listening, um, so many women just want to be heard and helping hospitals understand the pulse of what's going on, um, I think is tremendous work. [SPEAKER_01]: So why I'm here, I was just going to say, you know, we. [SPEAKER_01]: You hear the word trust like thrown around so many ways in healthcare these days, but I think women's health is a really good place to start building trust, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So we know that women are [SPEAKER_01]: 51% of the population. [SPEAKER_01]: They're bringing 100% of our future into existence, right? [SPEAKER_01]: They birth 100% of our future. [SPEAKER_01]: They're making 80% of healthcare decisions.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are people that hospitals and health systems need to trust them, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And we as a healthcare system often sit here and say, well, they should trust us. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's not on the patient to trust us. [SPEAKER_01]: It's on healthcare systems and organizations to be trustworthy. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think women's health is a great place to start. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's the little things, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's listening. [SPEAKER_01]: It's... [SPEAKER_01]: when someone tells you something you actually take action to respond to what they've told you. [SPEAKER_01]: It's giving them education at little points along the way so that they feel like they have more control over their care journey. [SPEAKER_01]: It's finding ways

to support clinicians and care teams so that they can be their best selves when they show up. [SPEAKER_01]: for their 15-20 minutes that they have with the patient, maybe it's finding ways to give more time between clinicians and patients in a visit to talk about what's really happening. [SPEAKER_01]: So there are really little things that can be done that over time build trust, but it's easy for me to say it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot harder to implement these things in big healthcare systems. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because as providers, a lot of people, you don't get sensitivity training, so you don't understand that portion of the equation, and it is not intuitive for everybody who enters the

healthcare system, and another thing that you touched on in addition to trust is empowering patients. [SPEAKER_00]: So, so many of them complain. [SPEAKER_00]: that healthcare either ignored them, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Or it happens to them or at them rather than with them. [SPEAKER_00]: So you just talked about their decision making capabilities. [SPEAKER_00]: We know about how much money you know, women have to spend and how they have that to enter into the healthcare ecosystem. [SPEAKER_00]: But [SPEAKER_00]: Women often don't feel empowered to make those decisions or spend those dollars or even feel like they are part of their health care journey. [SPEAKER_00]: So I love the fact that you are also through this and through these

initiatives and powering women because they want to be heard but they also want to feel like they're part of their own health care solution and that they have bodily autonomy. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and it's so important right, like, I think historically we have looked at healthcare systems and healthcare providers as being the ones that are driving, care decisions, driving the flow of information, driving the flow of care delivery. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we need to sort of flip that on its side because [SPEAKER_01]: We need individuals to be in a place where they feel comfortable talking about what's happening to them. [SPEAKER_01]: We need them to be in a place where they feel comfortable saying,

excuse me, I didn't understand that, or I read this, and it isn't the same as what you're saying. [SPEAKER_01]: Can you explain to me what the difference is? [SPEAKER_01]: Can you explain to me? [SPEAKER_01]: which path I should take, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we want informed patients, because informed patients will... [SPEAKER_01]: comply with treatment plans. [SPEAKER_01]: They will ask the right questions so that you can put them on the right treatment plans. [SPEAKER_01]: And they'll show up and they'll want to engage with their care teams and their care providers and then outcomes will be better. [SPEAKER_01]: Patient experiences will be better. [SPEAKER_01]: And those are all things that hospitals and health systems are striving

to achieve. [SPEAKER_00]: And there won't be delays in care. [SPEAKER_00]: If they understand that severe menstrual pain is not normal, even though every generational woman before them had it, and they thought that suffering was inevitable, maybe they'll get their fibroids or their endometrosis diagnosed much earlier than the 10 years it's taking us right now in this country. [SPEAKER_00]: And they won't struggle with infertility, and they'll have interventions sooner. [SPEAKER_00]: I hear in addition to being a founder and all this great work that you're doing, that you have a new podcast coming out. [SPEAKER_00]: So do you want to tell us a little bit about that? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I am really excited about this podcast because

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping to be able to answer questions, women have not just about their health, but about navigating the healthcare system. [SPEAKER_01]: So the podcast is called the Women's Health Playbook. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, so me and I have talked about this so many times and I know that the listeners feel this too, but navigating the healthcare system is like playing a game. [SPEAKER_01]: Except you don't really know the rules, the instructions are written in a language, you don't speak. [SPEAKER_01]: And the stakes are your life, so as a result, you know, and we've touched on this already today, women feel that they don't get the answers, that they need, they don't have the outcomes

and the experiences that they deserve. [SPEAKER_01]: And so my hope is that the women's health playbook will change that, and that in each episode we'll have leading experts giving women the plays they've never had before, and they'll [SPEAKER_01]: to delivering real actionable tactics and strategies that can be used to take control of your health and health care journey. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've had this idea of creating a podcast for so long but I couldn't figure out, like, how do I actually fill a gap that women have? [SPEAKER_01]: How do I move beyond a podcast that gives them leadership skills or information about specific women's health conditions or empowers them to feel better about their care?

[SPEAKER_01]: How do I just answer the real questions they have? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you plan for a doctor's appointment? [SPEAKER_01]: How do you build an agenda? [SPEAKER_01]: What do you do if a doctor doesn't listen to you or you feel that there's a medical gaslighting situation happening? [SPEAKER_01]: How do you make sense of the forms you have to fill out when you show up at your doctor's appointment? [SPEAKER_01]: How do you understand your bills, your co-pays, your deductibles? [SPEAKER_01]: And those are all things that we're going to [SPEAKER_01]: answer in the first season or play of the podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. [SPEAKER_00]: And all the steps you have to take a lot of

times to have something done at a hospital system. [SPEAKER_00]: There's sometimes a lot of steps that you have to take. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't do them, sometimes, you know, insurance coverage can be delayed. [SPEAKER_00]: So really going in prepared. [SPEAKER_00]: I think is essential to maximizing [SPEAKER_00]: not only your outcome, but also making sure that you get the best coverage for your visit or your surgery or your procedure or your imaging, whatever it is. [SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite episodes that we taped in this in the first play is [SPEAKER_01]: on the forms that you fill out when you show up. [SPEAKER_01]: And we have an attorney from Luri Children's Hospital in Chicago who

walks through everything you need to do in a form. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's lovely and she does it in a way that isn't boring. [SPEAKER_01]: But I've been a health care attorney, my whole career, and she was teaching me things. [SPEAKER_01]: And even though I've been in health care for so long, [SPEAKER_01]: In every episode, I've learned a new tip or a new trick and so I'm really excited for it to be out there in the world for women to get this information. [SPEAKER_00]: I am too because the littlest things can alter um so funny story up until very recently I had two charts within one hospital because um you know I go by so me

and that's what everyone knows me as but my legal name and my insurance name is Sunball and so [SPEAKER_00]: I kept having two charts couldn't get them merged everything kept going to the wrong pharmacy They kept sending results to my primary care from 10 years ago and they're like who's selling me? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like me they're like who's single? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like me [SPEAKER_00]: Then they kept two different addresses so they kept thinking it was like two different people I'm like can we please just merge the charts but simple little things like that and I think it's because someone had they were walked in and they're like oh it's Dr. Savage made and they started

you know helping me fill it out and I was like oh it should have been sunwall so [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so what was your, so you're someone who's been there, done it, like, and I love playbook because I think women are still hungry for playbooks right now. [SPEAKER_00]: What has surprised you the most, the first time you decided to work with the hospital system or partner with the hospital system? [SPEAKER_00]: What was your biggest surprise? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so in the first iteration of New Health, which is how I got to know you, I worked with startups to help them build relationships with hospitals, and I didn't expect to be surprised by much, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I was

a former attorney for health systems. [SPEAKER_01]: I understood the layers and levels of approval, the time it takes to get from a conversation to a deal. [SPEAKER_01]: And from my work at age A, you know, I really understood the challenges hospitals faced from a payment perspective to there on going finances and workforce challenges. [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought I was good to go, but I think what surprised me. [SPEAKER_01]: the most are the comments I got from healthcare leaders about women's health. [SPEAKER_01]: Things like, why is this important? [SPEAKER_01]: Or this is too political? [SPEAKER_01]: Or I don't believe that women make 80% of healthcare decisions. [SPEAKER_01]: Or this isn't happening in our service area. [SPEAKER_01]:

And you know, it was really in all those meetings that [SPEAKER_01]: I realize that I could probably be a better resource to hospitals and health systems if I focus on helping them understand the answers to these questions and the roles that they could play to make women's health better. [SPEAKER_01]: And then of course helping them [SPEAKER_01]: Figure out the best way to solve for the gaps, whether that's to build their own solution, bias solution, or partner with someone to develop a solution together. [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was really in those conversations that I realized I was perhaps on the wrong side of this conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: So, to flip the side then, the startups, where do

you think that they, I don't want to say made a mistake, but where do you think they underestimated the partnership with the hospital system or the complexity of it? [SPEAKER_00]: What part of it do you think that they didn't get right or underestimated or thought was easier? [SPEAKER_01]: I think all of it's so many to be honest, you know, there's so many things that hospitals need to consider need to vet, need to look at before they partner with a startup or any organization. [SPEAKER_01]: With startups, especially most of them were having a digital or an app component, so there were IT and cyber security challenges that hospitals were facing that you know start up founders

didn't necessarily anticipate as they integrate into a hospital or health system finding the right champion. [SPEAKER_01]: within an organization that can bring everyone along in the change management that is associated with integrating a new system. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a legal process and I can speak to that as a former lawyer. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone thinks we're too slow, but we're not too slow. [SPEAKER_01]: We're waiting for all the right pieces to line up. [SPEAKER_01]: There's also procurement and billing and payment. [SPEAKER_01]: I think all of those are really complex issues that startups don't necessarily have all the tools that they need to understand what hospitals are sort of dealing with. [SPEAKER_01]: And then all of those levels of

complexity sort of just land with the fact that hospitals take a long time to get from a conversation to a deal. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think from the start-ups I worked with, the biggest struggle was just accepting that fact that working with a hospital takes time and it may not move as quickly as you want it to. [SPEAKER_01]: So it can't be your only strategy. [SPEAKER_01]: It needs to be part of a bigger strategy where you're working on other things as you're slowly navigating these relationships with hospitals so that you can get there. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way for all of the startups we see in the women's health space to continue in the silos in which

they are in right now. [SPEAKER_01]: They are gonna have to at some point latch onto the existing systems and structures we have in place and that includes payers, that includes hospitals and health systems. [SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, they're not gonna be able to survive. [SPEAKER_00]: No, and I've been saying that even themselves, I think that, you know, do we need a singular vertical for every single health concern for a woman? [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, it's wonderful to have that deep level of expertise. [SPEAKER_00]: It would be so much more impactful. [SPEAKER_00]: If everyone combined forces, because operationally and just your reach will be so much and you'll become so much more cost effective, if you pull together

all of your resources. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was a huge learning for me. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but you talk about how it takes time and this is where on another episode I talked about, you know, does PE and VC really belong in healthcare because the problem the startups have is that they have investors who are expecting a return and so this is where I caution startups to really make sure you're partnering [SPEAKER_00]: with investors who understand healthcare, particularly not wearables, not pharma, not device, but healthcare services. [SPEAKER_00]: Because the return on investment is not going to be quick, because you are building patient trust, you are training clinicians, you are having health care systems, you know, change

maybe and integrate the way they do things. [SPEAKER_00]: But how do you [SPEAKER_00]: balance this building trust of the patient, the start-up expectation without slowing innovation to a complete crawl. [SPEAKER_00]: How do you balance it all? [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really tricky. [SPEAKER_01]: And I had this belief when I left the AHA to start new health. [SPEAKER_01]: I, I don't, it was rose-colored glasses, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: But I thought all of the innovation was taking place in the startup world. [SPEAKER_01]: And all of the cool stuff was being funded by VC and PE. [SPEAKER_01]: And I really wanted to be a part of that. [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to take everything I knew about hospitals

and sort of [SPEAKER_01]: And in doing that, I sort of realized two things. [SPEAKER_01]: I realized first, that's not where all of the innovation is happening. [SPEAKER_01]: There are really, really cool things that are happening at hospitals and health systems around women's health. [SPEAKER_01]: We just don't hear about it that much, right? [SPEAKER_01]: They are just... [SPEAKER_01]: Innovating, implementing, and moving on with patient care delivery, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I've talked to so many health systems who have innovation arms where clinicians are developing new solutions and they're being integrated on a daily basis. [SPEAKER_00]: they just don't have PR teams that are, you know, telling everybody about it and so they're in stealth mode. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the

way I was for seven years before I, you know, raised money. [SPEAKER_00]: No one knew that we were, you know, I, I look at what people are doing now, you know, the cancer, genetic testing and the multi-site early, you know, detection tests. [SPEAKER_00]: And we were in, in office, HSGs, which are called FEMDU and in office, fiber manipulation. [SPEAKER_00]: all of that way before we was talking about it. [SPEAKER_00]: And in an office setting, and so we call that stealth mode, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And start up, but I agree with you. [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people are innovating. [SPEAKER_00]: They just don't get featured in a documentary or a book or in the press

because they're just quietly winning the work. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the other thing too is like, we have this notion that innovation has to be fast. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be fast. [SPEAKER_01]: Innovation in healthcare takes time and it should take time. [SPEAKER_01]: We are dealing with people's bodies and their lives. [SPEAKER_01]: That deserves the research, the methodology, everything that it has in place. [SPEAKER_01]: In working with startups and ventures I kept hearing, hospitals are too slow, we need to move faster, we need to move faster, and you know I got to the point where I was like, who says fast is better, but who says fast is going to lead to more innovative

solutions, who says fast is going to lead to solutions that will stick with us for the long haul and actually improve patient outcomes. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying that certain things can't be done quickly in health care. [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about patient trust. [SPEAKER_01]: I think some of the steps that you could start implementing around trust you could do fairly quickly. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're developing new devices, new medications, new treatment protocols, [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes that deserves the time it takes, or if you're integrated new technology into existing workflows and pathways, sometimes it takes time to get it right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and innovation, this is always say this dies without adoption. [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't get

providers or systems to adopt what you're innovating and you're innovating in a vacuum, [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's gonna die. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why we've seen so many quote unquote billion dollar ideas die of the time because there's no adoption. [SPEAKER_00]: So this sounds like your first version and this is why we became friends rose colored gal blasts because that was my thing too. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna. [SPEAKER_00]: solve healthcare. [SPEAKER_00]: Now my vision is I just want to leave it better than, you know, the mess I found it in for a woman. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, um, but, so sounds like the first version was working with startups, helping them, you know, work with hospital systems. [SPEAKER_00]: So tell me

about your pivot now at new health. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I mentioned this already, but I have the wrong customer, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm sitting in this conversation, and I'm sitting in this conversation [SPEAKER_01]: I miss working with hospitals. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my whole career had been working with hospitals. [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to take that knowledge and help start up, facilitate those conversations. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm sitting there and I'm like, I miss being on that side of the people. [SPEAKER_01]: And secondly, what I was seeing in the conversations and you were in some of them was that [SPEAKER_01]: The hospital leaders just weren't getting it, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So you have a physician

champion. [SPEAKER_01]: You have a champion that's leading the Women's Health Service line. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone gets it. [SPEAKER_01]: They want to move forward a solution. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it gets to a decision maker. [SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: They don't understand why it's needed and we are doing a good job giving them the right information for them to see how to do it and it was in a meeting I was having with a start up and we were getting some tough questions from a C-suite executive at the health system where I realized hospital leaders need more education on women's health and they need to understand [SPEAKER_01]: The full scope of where they can take action and what that

looks like. [SPEAKER_01]: And so sitting in the seat that I'm in now, I have more clarity about my role. [SPEAKER_01]: I have more clarity about where I can be helpful. [SPEAKER_01]: how I can help them assess what's happening to their patients, their communities, what resources they have available to them, what clinicians are there that are willing to take this on and be the champion to implement new ways of doing things. [SPEAKER_01]: And once we can do those full assessments and know what we're working with, [SPEAKER_01]: Then we can navigate to real solutions that will allow an organization to take the next step forward. [SPEAKER_01]: Right? [SPEAKER_01]: I mentioned earlier, there's this idea of a comprehensive

women's health center everywhere, and [SPEAKER_01]: That's how what we need. [SPEAKER_01]: What we need is for every hospital to take one step further, whether that is implementing implicit bias training to help with maternal health outcomes, whether it's paying to have their OBGYNs and their primary care physician certified by the menopause society, whether it is holding a convening once a year that brings together different [SPEAKER_01]: Certain conditions in our lives have impacts other way, other places in our bodies. [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it may be, one step. [SPEAKER_01]: Cause that's how we move things forward. [SPEAKER_00]: So you talk about providers and hospitals do employ a lot of doctors and clinicians and there is a shortage that is

expected or forecasted that's gonna happen particularly in women's health. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see this as a problem that is going to affect hospital systems? [SPEAKER_00]: And if it is, or are they gonna stay? [SPEAKER_00]: Why? [SPEAKER_00]: would you think it's an issue for a hospital system? [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's an issue for all of us, so me, and I just read a piece that was published in the Obsessex and Gynecology Journal in January, and the authors of this study found that by 2035, only six states will have an adequate supply of OBGYX. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're a woman who happens to live outside of Hawaiian New York, Connecticut, Maryland, Rhode Island, or Louisiana, you may

have trouble accessing the care you need. [SPEAKER_01]: And the reality is that even in those states, [SPEAKER_01]: You may not have access, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And people are going to OBGYNs, not just for babies, right? [SPEAKER_01]: They're going for their continual GYN checkups. [SPEAKER_01]: They're going for primary care. [SPEAKER_01]: They're going for support during the transition through period menopause to menopause, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Our OBGYNs are covering a lot for patients. [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have [SPEAKER_01]: the right supply to meet the demand. [SPEAKER_01]: And in many states, according to this journal article, the decline is going to be really, really significant. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's going to impact patients, communities, hospitals, and health systems. [SPEAKER_01]:

It's going to impact all of us. [SPEAKER_01]: And in the article, the author suggests, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: ways to sort of address these shortages, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So things like workforce planning and policy interventions, expanding the OBGYN pipeline, which we know, you know, isn't as great as it used to be given where we are as a country in terms of laws around reproductive rights. [SPEAKER_01]: They talk about retaining the existing workforce [SPEAKER_01]: The target geographic and OBGYN distribution around the country or increasing advanced practice clinicians in women's health. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think all of those are solutions that will work. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's going to be a mix of those solutions. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to

matter what's happening in a particular community, because health care is so local, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like you may have enough OBGYNs in your community, and you still might not be using them appropriately. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with that, and there's so many things that I hear on the provider side, particularly female providers. [SPEAKER_00]: I hear that they feel like they're not given mission driven work anymore, that they are dealing with too much paperwork, right, that we used to be able to give verbal orders. [SPEAKER_00]: Now you have to enter everything into the EHR. [SPEAKER_00]: they are passed over for promotions because they almost feel penalized for taking time off for having babies and maternity leave. [SPEAKER_00]: I

personally had I was promoted a partner and they tried to rescind when they found out that I was pregnant. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, this was, but, you know, my children are, I'm not justifying it, but the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, one son is going to be 25, daughter who's going to be 20, and then my youngest is 17. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you're not talking about this happening yesterday, but still found out that I was pregnant. [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, oh, yeah, but that partnership, I'm like, what? [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not legal. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so lack of mission driven work. [SPEAKER_00]: And then, [SPEAKER_00]: Um, disproportionate. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, hospital systems don't have control

over this, but disproportionate expectations at home with their working partner, right? [SPEAKER_00]: The more kid-duty, more car-duty, more cooking, more cleaning, it's placed upon them so that work life, I hate the word balance because we are ever in balance, but work life, struggle, whatever you want to call it. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, they feel very, very burned out, so maybe we could support them in other ways. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I loved about, um, her MD is we did things like retreats and we did things like education during lunch hours so they didn't have to go, you know, offside to get their CME and they didn't have to do it in the evening. [SPEAKER_00]: We gave them charting

time blocks. [SPEAKER_00]: We took away all call and we third partied it so that I wanted my providers when they were home that they were present and they were home and not doing charts. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think, you know, we're seeing, and then obviously the political climate. [SPEAKER_00]: People are scared to practice in certain states because not only are you worried about med mall and know be, you know, GYN, but now all of a sudden there's a political environment which is not great when you're talking about women's reproductive health. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think, at least that's what I'm hearing from the providers, so realistically, you mentioned a couple of the levers that hospital

systems can pull anything else you think that they can do to really incentivize providers to stay and not just stay but thrive, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because when they stay and thrive and they're happy, [SPEAKER_00]: The patients can actually feel it. [SPEAKER_00]: Like when they used to come to her MD they used to say we can feel it It's magical you guys all get along the providers are happy when you have a disgruntled You know provider or worker it's palpable particularly in health care because it's so personal Yeah, so I mean I think from [SPEAKER_01]: like a health care system perspective, not just in individual hospital or health system, but the system as a whole, I think

we need to evaluate payment for women's health services. [SPEAKER_01]: It's inadequate in so many ways. [SPEAKER_01]: We need to assess what we currently expect OBGYNs to do. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we ask far too much of them when they're already spread thin. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we need to find new ways to deliver care and better coordinate primary and specialty care [SPEAKER_01]: for women across their lives. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's that's sort of at the highest level. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think when we look at it from a hospital and health system perspective, I think we need to address sort of the two areas where we are losing women. [SPEAKER_01]: in the workforce and the first period of

time is after they have their first child and I'm going to pull up some data that I found that I think is really interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: So nearly 40% of physician moms reduce hours or leave the workforce within six years of completing training. [SPEAKER_01]: So we're in a place right now where we've increased the number of women who are going to medical school, but we have 40% of them that are reducing their hours or leaving the workforce within six years. [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's one of the biggest leakage points we see in women's health capacity. [SPEAKER_01]: And that impacts the nurse workforce as well. [SPEAKER_01]: The data there is that 46% of unemployed nurses between the

ages of 31 and 40 site family obligations as the primary reason they are no longer. [SPEAKER_01]: in the workforce. [SPEAKER_01]: So we need to find a way as organizations to address transitions into pregnancy, parental leave, and return to work in a way that we can offer more predictability, more stability for the workforce. [SPEAKER_01]: The other place that we really need to be paying attention is mid-life, right? [SPEAKER_01]: are either in parent menopause, menopause or postmenopause and we have a tremendous opportunity to adjust how we deliver benefits, how we structure workplaces, to help it that strategic point too. [SPEAKER_01]: And so let me just give you some examples of the things that can be done from

an employer perspective at each of those sort of [SPEAKER_01]: points in time. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'd love to hear solutions. [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about the problem. [SPEAKER_00]: And then that gives listeners like action items if they're at a hospital system or things that they can ask for or maybe become an advocate at their jobs. [SPEAKER_00]: Because the one thing I do want to point out, Priya, is we know we do not want to lose these women. [SPEAKER_00]: We want to heal our healers. [SPEAKER_00]: Because women tend to have better outcomes, lower mortality when it comes to surgery, when it comes to cardiovascular outcomes with patients. [SPEAKER_00]: And particularly with female patients, they even more improved outcomes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we need to keep these women in the workplace. [SPEAKER_00]: So fill us in, what are some of these solutions? [SPEAKER_01]: It's also important to keep them in the workforce because right now women make up 80% of the health care workforce. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not keeping them, you've got a business problem. [SPEAKER_01]: You have a business problem. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, flat out. [SPEAKER_01]: So for both. [SPEAKER_01]: postpartum and midlife transitions, offering flexible work schedules, not just to women, but to all employees that allow them to take time off when they need it, that allow them to care for sick children, parents and other family members. [SPEAKER_01]: That is a really great place. [SPEAKER_01]: And

if we're thinking about [SPEAKER_01]: The leakage of women postpartum, there are a lot of things that can be evaluated from a family building perspective when we look at benefit design. [SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, you can offer a maternity care services, yes, you can offer fertility services, but you also have to offer services that help after the baby arrives. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so paid parental leave, not just for mom, but for dad as well, or for both parents, I should say, supporting, working moms and dads in the workplace, that can be done pretty easily, right? [SPEAKER_01]: You can create a community, keep parents in mind when making decisions, train managers and supervisors on the challenges that new parents

face. [SPEAKER_01]: um, develop policies that support parents, you know, perhaps meetings that take place before school drop-off or after school pickup are done virtually instead of live so that they can manage their family obligations and still be able to work. [SPEAKER_01]: Another place that you can make change is subsidies for child care services or offering benefits that allow for child care referrals or access to backup child care services. [SPEAKER_01]: Child care costs so much in our country right now. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not even just about reducing the stress so that women and men have time to do the jobs that we're hiring them to do. [SPEAKER_01]: It's alleviating some of that pressure they feel. [SPEAKER_01]: from

the increased costs that are associated with child care. [SPEAKER_01]: And then for midlife, again, flexible hours are beneficial offering health care benefits that actually allow access to trained menopause providers, making sure that the benefits that are offered actually cover treatment options for parent menopause and menopause including HRT, [SPEAKER_01]: providing opportunities for education, again, not just for the women who are going through this midlife transition, but everyone in the workforce so that we can create environments that support women in taking advantages of the benefits that we're offering, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So if men have a full understanding of what is happening midlife, [SPEAKER_01]: It might create an environment where women feel more comfortable taking any benefits or

policies that are offered during that time period. [SPEAKER_00]: And what do you think about invisible labor? [SPEAKER_00]: And so what I mean by that is particularly your providers and midlife who have such an opportunity to teach, just like we do in life, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We have such an opportunity to teach in our jobs, particularly in health care, because then you've got a decade or two under your belt, and now you can teach the next generation. [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes, we were just told, oh, there's a person coming in and you're going to train them. [SPEAKER_00]: My husband is now paid for research time, and he is now reimbursed for, he didn't used to be, but he has

an RV equivalent for family meetings. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the things that he had to do as an oncologist used to this invisible labor is now recognized and paid by the hospital. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that there's room to create RVUs or some type of reimbursement that will incentivize people to be more willing to take on this labor and feel less stressed about it? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think that that's a possibility, but I think you know you gave an example of a man who is paid for all of those things. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we need to start by doing an evaluation of all of the unpaid labor that is taking place for women in work environments. [SPEAKER_01]:

I think there are a lot of things that are happening that we've never put words to. [SPEAKER_01]: We've never counted or accounted for. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think if we were to do that, we would see that perhaps there's a lot more. [SPEAKER_01]: that women are being asked to do that they have not been paid for, then what men are asked to do. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we have to start there. [SPEAKER_01]: We have to identify what the size of the problem. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I think there is an opportunity. [SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing it with how your husband is [SPEAKER_01]: paid for the services that he does, the compensation package that he gets for that. [SPEAKER_01]:

And I think there's so much value to teaching, there's so much value to leadership. [SPEAKER_01]: We as a system need to find a better way to calculate. [SPEAKER_01]: what that turns into in terms of compensation. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, again, I see another way to grow back to your point. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he is an oncologist, yes, he's a male. [SPEAKER_00]: He's an oncologist, and oncology is not a female dominated field. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're probably seeing reimbursement and compensation changes there. [SPEAKER_00]: More quickly than we are in fields dominated by female providers. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and back in the day when I worked at health systems, I mean, we saw those calculations being [SPEAKER_01]: more common for fields like

oncology, cardiology, orthopedics, which are not necessarily where we're seeing a bulk of women. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, where is that accounting for OBGYNs? [SPEAKER_01]: Where is it for primary care physicians? [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think there's more work that can be done. [SPEAKER_01]: It's easy for me to sit on a podcast here and tell everyone they need to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: It is a lot harder to do it in the real world and within the finances. [SPEAKER_01]: that organizations owe it to their employees to start figuring this out. [SPEAKER_01]: And again, 80% of the health care workforce is women. [SPEAKER_01]: So they owe it to their business to figure it out. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I like the

one thing that you said and I think some systems have already adopted this. [SPEAKER_00]: I remember pre-abying so overwhelmed because I'd be delivering babies all night. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I would expect it to either go in the next day and see gynecologic patients. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was treating bleeding, STIs, abnormal uterine bleeding, PCOS, perimenopause, menopause, probably not doing a great job because I was seeing upwards of 50 people [SPEAKER_00]: Or I was operating the next day right doing his direct to me. [SPEAKER_00]: So there has been talk of, you know, the stakes are so high in Returnal mortality in this country right in obstetrics is just truly have laborists and people who [SPEAKER_00]: love that

part of a woman's life and really be dedicated to taking care of fertility pregnancy and postpartum and then allow the gynecologists to do the in-office work that they do, but then also the surgery if they want. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because you said it yourself and I agree as someone who just, who has practiced for two decades, it's a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: People joke that it's bikini medicine and OBGYNs only cover that, but no, we don't. [SPEAKER_00]: There is so much to be covered and so much at stake. [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't get it right, so I think that allowing people to sleep and [SPEAKER_00]: you know have that balance of having

time off and then be fully rested when they are working so that they can do this higher acuity work would also be part of the solutions. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not opposed to separating out, you know, the jobs and having true laborists or obstetricians and then true gynecologists. [SPEAKER_00]: My life really changed. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that that could work wonderfully. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think the thing that holds people back is the payment, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you look at an OBGYN's practice, a bulk of the payment comes from delivering babies, there is less payment for the time they spend one-on-one with patients doing pap smears and talking about sexual health and menopause. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, we

both know there's ways around that and there's ways to create businesses that create the time and space to have those conversations. [SPEAKER_01]: evaluation needs to be done. [SPEAKER_01]: How do we separate it out? [SPEAKER_01]: How do we make sure that the clinicians that want to be delivering babies or delivering babies? [SPEAKER_01]: How do we make sure the GYNs that want to be in the office counseling women talking to women in these periods of transition in their life? [SPEAKER_01]: Get the opportunity to do that or if they want to pop over and do a GYN surgery, they have that capability of doing that but they're not delivering babies. [SPEAKER_01]: Another thing, and, you know, my dad

was an anesthesiologist, so I've paid attention as that field has changed over the last three or four decades, and when he was practicing, you know, he worked all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: He was on call, he was like on 36 hours off for like 24, then back on for 36, and it was crazy, and one of the things that has changed in the field of anesthesiology is shift work. [SPEAKER_01]: And why don't we do that more often or more frequently for OBGYN that are delivering babies? [SPEAKER_01]: Because, and I think that's the concept of laborist, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like if we have people who are trained experts and can deliver babies, we give that sleep time back,

right? [SPEAKER_01]: And if we develop a physician practice that has the right mix of clinicians, [SPEAKER_01]: I bet there's a way we can find a way to make your profit. [SPEAKER_00]: And there are, I had a job like that in Kentucky for about 18 months while I was undergoing infertility treatments because I did not, I could not find a private practice that would let me do it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I needed to sleep and take care of the one child I already had, but still have time to be able to do, you know, my treatments. [SPEAKER_00]: And found this, they didn't call it a labor-ish of the hospitalist job, is what I did. [SPEAKER_00]: And I

loved it because when I was on, I was on, but when I was off, I was off. [SPEAKER_00]: No one was aging me, no one was calling me in. [SPEAKER_00]: I had to stay there when I was there because it was rural. [SPEAKER_00]: um and it was great and I had great balance, I had great sleep when I was you know at home and I felt refreshed but the problem for me was at that point my life on one and continuity of care so I wanted to take care of you, you know, through [SPEAKER_00]: your life phases. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why like people like, well, why wouldn't you stay with that? [SPEAKER_00]: But I think

for certain physicians or providers at stages of their life, that could be a great way. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where low comes is right now, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That's how they're fixing these shortages, or they're just plugging people into these places where there are care desert deserts. [SPEAKER_01]: And I've told me this is just another place like we talked it earlier about asking patients what they want and then listening I mean this is a great place to ask clinicians what they want and then listen right because [SPEAKER_01]: If clinicians are feeling that they are burnt out, they don't get enough sleep, they aren't able to do all of the things that they need to do for their

jobs and their lives. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how can we alleviate that pressure? [SPEAKER_01]: How can we let them feel like they are working towards their mission? [SPEAKER_01]: We have to start by knowing what their mission is and what they want. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is another thing in the healthcare system that we don't always do so well. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, up until I started my own practice because that was, you know, everyone talks about your E. We're so patient centric. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, no, we were patient and provider centric. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's because without providers, you can't have a healthcare system. [SPEAKER_00]: So I agree with you. [SPEAKER_00]: We have to listen to

the providers so we can create an environment that also fuels them. [SPEAKER_00]: So going back, you and I are both founders, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about my founding journey. [SPEAKER_00]: What is the piece of advice? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, before this version of you now is is here. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think I would tell her to calm down and go with the flow. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, two things I'm not really good at doing, but two things that I think are so important in this space being a founder is hard and being sort of [SPEAKER_01]: ahead of the game and how you think about the future is challenging. [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I feel like I'm out on

an island screaming like, at a space, what they want and I'm like, why are we doing that already? [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think sort of being calm, staying the course, [SPEAKER_01]: Knowing that people will catch up to you, people will start to understand what you're saying and they will watch what you are doing and how you're showing up. [SPEAKER_01]: And it will change hearts and minds over time. [SPEAKER_01]: But you got to calm down because it's not, it's not. [SPEAKER_01]: The stress and the anxiety that comes with that is not helping anyone. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny that you said that because this year my you know I hate New Year's resolutions absolutely cannot stand them

and so my mantra this year is to stop chasing stop running stop chasing doesn't mean I'm not dreaming and building and working it's I'm not chasing anymore so I'm not that frenetic energy didn't serve me. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I mean, we like my religious book is the Gita, and I've been talking to my mom a lot more about it as I get older, and there's a part in the Gita where Krishna is giving advice to his friend, Arjun, who's about to go off to war. [SPEAKER_01]: And he doesn't say, you got this man go for it, go for it. [SPEAKER_01]: He says, all you are guaranteed is your actions. [SPEAKER_01]: You're not guaranteed the

fruits of your action. [SPEAKER_01]: you all you can do is do what you're doing and then see what comes your way like just in that case just because you go to war doesn't mean you're going to win the war and here like I found myself wanting things like wanting to speak at this place, wanting this client, wanting to be as successful as someone or get this award or be on this list and all of that stuff is [SPEAKER_01]: All we can do is do the work we believe in and do it well. [SPEAKER_01]: And do it smartly. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying work for years without seeing any sort of gain. [SPEAKER_01]: But doing our work

smartly, that's what we can do. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have to see how the universe sort of brings things back to us. [SPEAKER_00]: So what, you know, talking about founders and now talking to you younger self, what is one thing that founders should measure early to actually prove that they're improving care? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think it's the data. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a little bit more challenging for the business that I'm finding because a lot of it is changing hearts and minds and that's hard to measure. [SPEAKER_01]: But when I was working with other founders and the women's health space, I was always pushing them to have data. [SPEAKER_01]: Because, [SPEAKER_01]: When you're going

into conversations with funders or hospitals and health systems, like it's great to show them national data, it's great to show them global data that if we do this, it's going to improve XY and Z. [SPEAKER_01]: But having that local or patient-specific data is what's going to actually move the needle. [SPEAKER_01]: I actually had a hospital C-suite [SPEAKER_01]: With a startup, he said to the startup founder, you keep just giving me global and national data. [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't help me make a decision, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So how can we get to that patient and community-level data quickly so that we can start making the case for partnership? [SPEAKER_00]: So where can people follow new? [SPEAKER_00]: Where can

they follow you? [SPEAKER_00]: And what are you up to now? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so new health, you can follow on Instagram or LinkedIn, and it's NYO-O Health. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm on LinkedIn. [SPEAKER_01]: So follow me there. [SPEAKER_01]: I post a lot about my different thoughts on healthcare, healthcare leadership, women in the workforce. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, Priya. [SPEAKER_01]: This was so enlightening. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you all. [SPEAKER_01]: And listen to the Women's Health Playbook once it's out. [SPEAKER_00]: Please do. [SPEAKER_00]: This conversation really brought to mind one of my favorite Teddy Roosevelt quotes. [SPEAKER_00]: It is not the critic who counts. [SPEAKER_00]: The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,

whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, whose stripes valiantly, who airs, who comes up short again and again. [SPEAKER_00]: And who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm asking you to disrupt and to dream and to dare greatly, thank you so much for listening. [SPEAKER_00]: This is more than a conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a call. [SPEAKER_00]: A call to build something better. [SPEAKER_00]: Subscribe, share, and bring more disruptors into this room. [SPEAKER_00]: For unfiltered insights and bold ideas, go to drsomeet.com to sign up for the monthly disruptor newsletter. [SPEAKER_00]: And follow us on social at drsomeet. [SPEAKER_00]: We're not waiting for a seat at the table. [SPEAKER_00]:

We're building our own table.